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who is using softSqueak and standard Squeak

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Stéphane Ducasse

who is using softSqueak and standard Squeak

Hi guys

just out of curiosity who is using SoftSqueak and Standard Squeak theme?
I know that lukas like colored windows now may be specific new style with this behavior could be done?

Stef

Helene Bilbo

Re: who is using softSqueak and standard Squeak

"Stéphane Ducasse“ wrote

just out of curiosity who is using SoftSqueak and Standard Squeak theme?
I know that lukas like colored windows now may be specific new style with this behavior could be done?

Hi,
i use them and like them a lot.
I also asked on the Squeak-List about the origins of colored windows and got an interesting response:
Dan Ingalls on history of colorful windows..

Helene

Schwab,Wilhelm K

Re: who is using softSqueak and standard Squeak

Great link! I have never been a fan of the colored windows, with one glowing exception: clay rose (very subtle tint) really works for the debugger.

Dan also mentioned graph paper. Ledger green is a nice background color for reading text. What I want to see is a clean way to set text editor background colors for the various tools. I have found mentions of a Shout style for same, but I have never found it.

As a further argument in favor of backgrounds, if we were to adopt wx or some other native framework for our tools, the non-client areas would be drawn for us and therefore unchangeable. Tools would need to distinguish themselves by icon, background colors, and finally overall appearance.

Bill

________________________________________
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Helene Bilbo [[hidden email]]
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 8:20 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] who is using softSqueak and standard Squeak

"Stéphane Ducasse“ wrote:
>
> just out of curiosity who is using SoftSqueak and Standard Squeak theme?
> I know that lukas like colored windows now may be specific new style with
> this behavior could be done?
>
Hi,
i use them and like them a lot.
I also asked on the Squeak-List about the origins of colored windows and got
an interesting response:
http://forum.world.st/What-was-the-idea-behind-the-colorful-windows-td3315326.html#a3318563
Dan Ingalls on history of colorful windows..

Helene

--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/who-is-using-softSqueak-and-standard-Squeak-tp3407241p3407469.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Lukas Renggli

Re: who is using softSqueak and standard Squeak

In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse

Yeah, I kind of liked the colored windows, but nowadays I got used to
the mac look.

Lukas

On 26 March 2011 09:40, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi guys
>
> just out of curiosity who is using SoftSqueak and Standard Squeak theme?
> I know that lukas like colored windows now may be specific new style with this behavior could be done?
>
> Stef
>

--
Lukas Renggli
www.lukas-renggli.ch

Marcus Denker-4

Re: who is using softSqueak and standard Squeak

In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse

On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Helene Bilbo
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> "Stéphane Ducasse“ wrote:
>>
>> just out of curiosity who is using SoftSqueak and Standard Squeak theme?
>> I know that lukas like colored windows now may be specific new style with
>> this behavior could be done?
>>
> Hi,
> i use them and like them a lot.
>

I am always reminded of that Dilbert strip:

http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2002-09-23/

Marcus

--
Marcus Denker -- [hidden email]
http://www.marcusdenker.de

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: who is using softSqueak and standard Squeak

In reply to this post by Lukas Renggli

We could get a new colored one because if it helps people this can be good.
Now I was jus wondering if we stay with these two endlessly.

Stef

On Mar 26, 2011, at 1:57 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote:

> Yeah, I kind of liked the colored windows, but nowadays I got used to
> the mac look.
>
> Lukas
>
> On 26 March 2011 09:40, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi guys
>>
>> just out of curiosity who is using SoftSqueak and Standard Squeak theme?
>> I know that lukas like colored windows now may be specific new style with this behavior could be done?
>>
>> Stef
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Lukas Renggli
> www.lukas-renggli.ch
>

Tudor Girba

Re: who is using softSqueak and standard Squeak

Hi,

I vote to not keep them in the distribution.

Perhaps there are a handful of people that use them, but this should be solvable by making the themes loadable.

Cheers,
Doru

On 27 Mar 2011, at 09:39, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:

> We could get a new colored one because if it helps people this can be good.
> Now I was jus wondering if we stay with these two endlessly.
>
> Stef
>
> On Mar 26, 2011, at 1:57 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I kind of liked the colored windows, but nowadays I got used to
>> the mac look.
>>
>> Lukas
>>
>> On 26 March 2011 09:40, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hi guys
>>>
>>> just out of curiosity who is using SoftSqueak and Standard Squeak theme?
>>> I know that lukas like colored windows now may be specific new style with this behavior could be done?
>>>
>>> Stef
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lukas Renggli
>> www.lukas-renggli.ch
>>
>
>

--
www.tudorgirba.com

"The coherence of a trip is given by the clearness of the goal."

Stuart Herring-2

Re: who is using softSqueak and standard Squeak

In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse

I definitely use them - I like being able to locate the windows
instantly by colour. And a less practical reason is that the grey
default themes always make me feel depressed. Programming shouldn't
be grey and boring, it should be fun ;)

A new, supported colourised theme would be a wonderful thing -
particularly if there were settings to choose the colour scheme.
I like the coloured windows so much that I've been tempted to go back
to Squeak - right up until the overloaded world menu reminds me why I
prefer Pharo.

Regards,
Stuart

On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 7:40 PM, Stéphane Ducasse
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi guys
>
> just out of curiosity who is using SoftSqueak and Standard Squeak theme?
> I know that lukas like colored windows now may be specific new style with this behavior could be done?
>
> Stef
>

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: who is using softSqueak and standard Squeak

When I see how much code we cleaned.... I think that there should be soemthing else
than the color.

Stef

Marcus Denker-4

Re: who is using softSqueak and standard Squeak

In reply to this post by Stuart Herring-2

On Mar 28, 2011, at 9:22 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:

>>
>>
>> A new, supported colourised theme would be a wonderful thing -
>> particularly if there were settings to choose the colour scheme.
>> I like the coloured windows so much that I've been tempted to go back
>> to Squeak - right up until the overloaded world menu reminds me why I
>> prefer Pharo.
>
> When I see how much code we cleaned.... I think that there should be soemthing else
> than the color.
>

It's all just Random Refactoring (tm).

;-)

Marcus

--
Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de
INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: who is using softSqueak and standard Squeak

In reply to this post by Stuart Herring-2

May be you should give a try to package them separately.
Else I will give a try because to me they look a bit outdated.

Stef

On Mar 27, 2011, at 11:15 PM, Stuart Herring wrote:

> I definitely use them - I like being able to locate the windows
> instantly by colour. And a less practical reason is that the grey
> default themes always make me feel depressed. Programming shouldn't
> be grey and boring, it should be fun ;)
>
> A new, supported colourised theme would be a wonderful thing -
> particularly if there were settings to choose the colour scheme.
> I like the coloured windows so much that I've been tempted to go back
> to Squeak - right up until the overloaded world menu reminds me why I
> prefer Pharo.
>
> Regards,
> Stuart
>
> On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 7:40 PM, Stéphane Ducasse
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi guys
>>
>> just out of curiosity who is using SoftSqueak and Standard Squeak theme?
>> I know that lukas like colored windows now may be specific new style with this behavior could be done?
>>
>> Stef
>>
>

Camillo Bruni

Re: who is using softSqueak and standard Squeak

Anyone who is going to touch my beloved standard squeak will be killed!!!

Just kidding, but I still use it.
However, IMO don't invest time in rewriting the UI for the 10th time!
There is plenty of other things which are more important to get the language up to date.

(^o^)
camillo

On 2011-03-28, at 21:56, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:

> May be you should give a try to package them separately.
> Else I will give a try because to me they look a bit outdated.
>
> Stef
>
> On Mar 27, 2011, at 11:15 PM, Stuart Herring wrote:
>
>> I definitely use them - I like being able to locate the windows
>> instantly by colour. And a less practical reason is that the grey
>> default themes always make me feel depressed. Programming shouldn't
>> be grey and boring, it should be fun ;)
>>
>> A new, supported colourised theme would be a wonderful thing -
>> particularly if there were settings to choose the colour scheme.
>> I like the coloured windows so much that I've been tempted to go back
>> to Squeak - right up until the overloaded world menu reminds me why I
>> prefer Pharo.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Stuart
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 7:40 PM, Stéphane Ducasse
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hi guys
>>>
>>> just out of curiosity who is using SoftSqueak and Standard Squeak theme?
>>> I know that lukas like colored windows now may be specific new style with this behavior could be done?
>>>
>>> Stef
>>>
>>
>
>

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: who is using softSqueak and standard Squeak

well UI is really important.
We think about the clients of Moose for example.
And when I see the video of NullPointer they look sexy
Stef

> Anyone who is going to touch my beloved standard squeak will be killed!!!
>
> Just kidding, but I still use it.
> However, IMO don't invest time in rewriting the UI for the 10th time!
> There is plenty of other things which are more important to get the language up to date.
>
> (^o^)
> camillo
>
> On 2011-03-28, at 21:56, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>
>> May be you should give a try to package them separately.
>> Else I will give a try because to me they look a bit outdated.
>>
>> Stef
>>
>> On Mar 27, 2011, at 11:15 PM, Stuart Herring wrote:
>>
>>> I definitely use them - I like being able to locate the windows
>>> instantly by colour. And a less practical reason is that the grey
>>> default themes always make me feel depressed. Programming shouldn't
>>> be grey and boring, it should be fun ;)
>>>
>>> A new, supported colourised theme would be a wonderful thing -
>>> particularly if there were settings to choose the colour scheme.
>>> I like the coloured windows so much that I've been tempted to go back
>>> to Squeak - right up until the overloaded world menu reminds me why I
>>> prefer Pharo.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Stuart
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 7:40 PM, Stéphane Ducasse
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Hi guys
>>>>
>>>> just out of curiosity who is using SoftSqueak and Standard Squeak theme?
>>>> I know that lukas like colored windows now may be specific new style with this behavior could be done?
>>>>
>>>> Stef
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Tudor Girba

Re: who is using softSqueak and standard Squeak

+1

On 28 Mar 2011, at 23:09, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:

> well UI is really important.
> We think about the clients of Moose for example.
> And when I see the video of NullPointer they look sexy
> Stef
>
>> Anyone who is going to touch my beloved standard squeak will be killed!!!
>>
>> Just kidding, but I still use it.
>> However, IMO don't invest time in rewriting the UI for the 10th time!
>> There is plenty of other things which are more important to get the language up to date.
>>
>> (^o^)
>> camillo
>>
>> On 2011-03-28, at 21:56, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>>
>>> May be you should give a try to package them separately.
>>> Else I will give a try because to me they look a bit outdated.
>>>
>>> Stef
>>>
>>> On Mar 27, 2011, at 11:15 PM, Stuart Herring wrote:
>>>
>>>> I definitely use them - I like being able to locate the windows
>>>> instantly by colour. And a less practical reason is that the grey
>>>> default themes always make me feel depressed. Programming shouldn't
>>>> be grey and boring, it should be fun ;)
>>>>
>>>> A new, supported colourised theme would be a wonderful thing -
>>>> particularly if there were settings to choose the colour scheme.
>>>> I like the coloured windows so much that I've been tempted to go back
>>>> to Squeak - right up until the overloaded world menu reminds me why I
>>>> prefer Pharo.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Stuart
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 7:40 PM, Stéphane Ducasse
>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> Hi guys
>>>>>
>>>>> just out of curiosity who is using SoftSqueak and Standard Squeak theme?
>>>>> I know that lukas like colored windows now may be specific new style with this behavior could be done?
>>>>>
>>>>> Stef
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

--
www.tudorgirba.com

"Not knowing how to do something is not an argument for how it cannot be done."

Patrick Barroca

Re: who is using softSqueak and standard Squeak

In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse

On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 9:22 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:

When I see how much code we cleaned.... I think that there should be soemthing else
than the color.

Stef

Yep, from my small experience making Sandcastles Themes, UIThemes are composed of colours, font and border styles, icon set, even UI layout (windows title area for example) AFAIK.

BTW, I'm in favor of packaging themes outside of pharo but there should be an official place (repo) where one can list them.

I'm thinking of something like http://art.gnome.org/themes.

--
Patrick Barroca

laurent laffont

Re: who is using softSqueak and standard Squeak

On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 9:10 AM, Patrick Barroca <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 9:22 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:

When I see how much code we cleaned.... I think that there should be soemthing else
than the color.

Stef

Yep, from my small experience making Sandcastles Themes, UIThemes are composed of colours, font and border styles, icon set, even UI layout (windows title area for example) AFAIK.

BTW, I'm in favor of packaging themes outside of pharo but there should be an official place (repo) where one can list them.

I'm thinking of something like http://art.gnome.org/themes.

We could just list them in http://book.pharo-project.org/ with a screenshot.

Better: having settings loading them on the fly when we choose it like in KDE plasma preferences.

Laurent.

--
Patrick Barroca

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: who is using softSqueak and standard Squeak

In reply to this post by Patrick Barroca

Yes!

Partick if you want to extend the default theme to add color please do. We can create a repo
PharoThemes and we are done.
I would really like to remove the standard squeak because it is terrible. I set it up since some updates and
I cannot work with it anymore.

Stef

On Mar 29, 2011, at 9:10 AM, Patrick Barroca wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 9:22 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> When I see how much code we cleaned.... I think that there should be soemthing else
> than the color.
>
> Stef
>
>
>
> Yep, from my small experience making Sandcastles Themes, UIThemes are composed of colours, font and border styles, icon set, even UI layout (windows title area for example) AFAIK.
>
> BTW, I'm in favor of packaging themes outside of pharo but there should be an official place (repo) where one can list them.
>
> I'm thinking of something like http://art.gnome.org/themes.
>
> --
> Patrick Barroca

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: who is using softSqueak and standard Squeak

In reply to this post by laurent laffont

yes

On Mar 29, 2011, at 9:29 AM, laurent laffont wrote:

>
> On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 9:10 AM, Patrick Barroca <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 9:22 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> When I see how much code we cleaned.... I think that there should be soemthing else
> than the color.
>
> Stef
>
>
>
> Yep, from my small experience making Sandcastles Themes, UIThemes are composed of colours, font and border styles, icon set, even UI layout (windows title area for example) AFAIK.
>
> BTW, I'm in favor of packaging themes outside of pharo but there should be an official place (repo) where one can list them.
>
> I'm thinking of something like http://art.gnome.org/themes.
>
> We could just list them in http://book.pharo-project.org/ with a screenshot.
>
> Better: having settings loading them on the fly when we choose it like in KDE plasma preferences.
>
> Laurent.
>
>
>
> --
> Patrick Barroca
>

Patrick Barroca

Re: who is using softSqueak and standard Squeak

In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse

On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:

Yes!

Partick if you want to extend the default theme to add color please do. We can create a repo
PharoThemes and we are done.
I would really like to remove the standard squeak because it is terrible. I set it up since some updates and
I cannot work with it anymore.

Ok, I'll take a look at it.

I'll try to make a default theme with the same color scheme as standard squeak.

--
Patrick Barroca

Helene Bilbo

Re: who is using softSqueak and standard Squeak

In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse

"Stéphane Ducasse“ wrote

I would really like to remove the standard squeak because it is terrible. I set it up since some updates and
I cannot work with it anymore.

No, it is not terrible. It is very beautiful, and much more useful and innovative than for example fake-windows or fake-macos themes.
People like me who came to Pharo after you forked from Squeak have no idea of your quarrels with the Squeak-Community (i only read it afterwards in the mailing-lists) and have therefore no problem with using the best from every implementation (the beautiful theme from squeak and the random refactorings from pharo ;)
And while i would have no problem with loading the theme by hand — if i would remove themes it would not be the squeak theme..

Have a look at: Princeton study shows that easy fonts make things harder to remember: "Fortune favors the bold (and the Italicized)"