Amber marketing
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I am running into it everywhere. Amber simply isn't mentioned in places that it should be. Check out the bottom of this Wikipedia entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_browser Understanding of Amber has to be available or people...well...won't understand it. They won't or can't adopt what they don't understand. Is there a marketing plan?
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Not really (yet?) Nico
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In reply to this post by Chip Nowacek-2
From my experience this isn't a Amber problem.
This is a general Smalltalk problem. But I'm also very interested how Amber, the Smalltalk dialect closest to currently hyped technologies, will try to come across this problem. Looking at current developments in respect to "generation attention handicapped", I sometimes think we need to get rid of our old understanding of marketing and might need ti try something new. You are only recognized when you are fancy, mentioned everywhere and no questions are to be asked... I wonder why ludus, for exaple isn't promoted more,m as well as SmalltalkHub and also HMI. They proof that Smalltalk can easily povide solutions on newest technologies.... But have a look at Dart,... they seem to have the same issues. First I would try to show Seasiders how they can get rid of some of the pain they are facing in respect to JS integration. Did somebody already integrate Scriptaculous or other Seaside JS parts within Amber? Is there somebody who could make a screencast which shows how to bring a Pharo App to Amber? I think this would help to lower the barrier. Sebastian Am 05.03.2013 05:17, schrieb Chip Nowacek: > I am running into it everywhere. Amber simply isn't mentioned in > places that it should be. Check out the bottom of this Wikipedia entry: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_browser > > Understanding of Amber has to be available or people...well...won't > understand it. They won't or can't adopt what they don't understand. > > Is there a marketing plan? > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "amber-lang" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to [hidden email]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. |
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Guys, I'm really open to suggestions here.
If you have ideas, would like to promote Amber, you're very much welcome! Cheers, Nico On Mar 5, 2013, at 3:31 PM, Sebastian Heidbrink <[hidden email]> wrote: > From my experience this isn't a Amber problem. > > This is a general Smalltalk problem. > > But I'm also very interested how Amber, the Smalltalk dialect closest to currently hyped technologies, will try to come across this problem. > > Looking at current developments in respect to "generation attention handicapped", I sometimes think we need to get rid of our old understanding of marketing and might need ti try something new. You are only recognized when you are fancy, mentioned everywhere and no questions are to be asked... > > I wonder why ludus, for exaple isn't promoted more,m as well as SmalltalkHub and also HMI. They proof that Smalltalk can easily povide solutions on newest technologies.... > > But have a look at Dart,... they seem to have the same issues. > > First I would try to show Seasiders how they can get rid of some of the pain they are facing in respect to JS integration. Did somebody already integrate Scriptaculous or other Seaside JS parts within Amber? > Is there somebody who could make a screencast which shows how to bring a Pharo App to Amber? > > I think this would help to lower the barrier. > > Sebastian > > > Am 05.03.2013 05:17, schrieb Chip Nowacek: >> I am running into it everywhere. Amber simply isn't mentioned in places that it should be. Check out the bottom of this Wikipedia entry: >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_browser >> >> Understanding of Amber has to be available or people...well...won't understand it. They won't or can't adopt what they don't understand. >> >> Is there a marketing plan? >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- Nicolas Petton http://www.nicolas-petton.fr -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. |
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In reply to this post by Nicolas Petton
Now it gets interesting as this is within my line of business :-)
What about a podcast or two guys? Anytime this thursday and friday, I am ready to talk to you over skype, record, and format it all. Check some of my work: http://castroller.com/Podcasts/SPaMCAST/2962760 http://philippeback.be/feed/podcast http://youtube.com/philippeback We can also do a symbaloo webmix like the one of Pharo: http://www.symbaloo.com/mix/pharo /Phil 2013/3/5 Nicolas Petton <[hidden email]>: > On Mar 5, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Chip Nowacek <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Is there a marketing plan? > > > Not really (yet?) > > Nico > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "amber-lang" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [hidden email]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. |
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In reply to this post by Nicolas Petton
At the risk of being too basic, there are three rules to marketing:
There is also an opportunity rule:
The two are related: application of the three rules all depends on the apple (the market). So, who is suffering the most from having to deal with JS coding and aren't looking to Adobe or MS for pain relief? New coders? Rails, Seaside, Django folks? It's all about focus. Can't talk to everyone at once. Seaside does seem natural. How big is that apple? On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 9:35:22 AM UTC-5, nicolas petton wrote: Guys, I'm really open to suggestions here. You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. |
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In reply to this post by philippeback
I can answer on why Ludus hasn't been much advertised. My view is that it is not a finished product at all, so I never felt I should advertise it much outside of the Smalltalk circles...
--
Also, as with almost everything I do, I haven't updated it since a year ago, and I still have to code the last 90% part of the project (nice landing page, demo games, better documentation...).
Still, it could serve as promotional material in an Amber projects showcase! What about a Success Stories section on the official site? That's the very first thing I look for when I stumble upon any "next-century solution to save the web from sucking so much".
It's just a link of anchors someone has to maintain, not so much work for a (hopefully) quite greater outcome... I'd even volunteer to keep it up to date.
Cheers, Bernat. p.s. I did record a screencast showing how to code a simple snake-like game, which Citilab brought to the Mozilla Festival 2011 edition in London (https://vimeo.com/31597779). You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. |
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In reply to this post by Chip Nowacek-2
As uncomfortable as it might be for him, Nico's the lead here, he's the face. Until someone else is designated as the mouthpiece, he's the man. That doesn't mean he has to do all the thinking and planning for marketing. He's got plenty on his plate. Thing is: people only identify with people. For now, Nico's the guy people can connect with: credentials, experience, commitment, project understanding, raison d'être - all that.
Amber is a good story: timeless thinking to manage JavaScript complexity (or something like that) I'm not sure leading with Smalltalk helps. Not to hide it. Don't misunderstand. Bottom line, no one really cares - or shouldn't. Here's what matters: can you get your crap done on time and manage what you created after version 0.0.0.1a? That's what Amber is all about. Bringing order to JavaScript chaos. It's no coincidence that Smalltalk is probably the best-planned language there is. Ingalls took his time, was careful, and built a language based on human needs instead of the needs of the machine because people create and machines do what they are told. But getting into a my-language-vs-your-language conversation is a waste of time. Smalltalk's edge will show in the results. That's where it counts. It's true (and corporate types eat that stuff up). Amber's a big deal. It's got something good to say. And Nico has to say it (as we have to help him). I'd love to get an Ingalls quote. Right on the homepage. Has he said something about the project? Does he know about it? On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 8:17:47 AM UTC-5, Chip Nowacek wrote: I am running into it everywhere. Amber simply isn't mentioned in places that it should be. Check out the bottom of this Wikipedia entry: You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. |
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Ingalls also said: "JavaScript is the new Smalltalk." ;-)
Chip Nowacek wrote: > As uncomfortable as it might be for him, Nico's the lead here, he's > the face. Until someone else is designated as the mouthpiece, he's the > man. That doesn't mean he has to do all the thinking and planning for > marketing. He's got plenty on his plate. Thing is: people only > identify with people. For now, Nico's the guy people can connect with: > credentials, experience, commitment, project understanding, raison > d'être - all that. > > Amber is a good story: timeless thinking to manage JavaScript > complexity (or something like that) > > I'm not sure leading with Smalltalk helps. Not to hide it. Don't > misunderstand. Bottom line, no one really cares - or shouldn't. Here's > what matters: can you get your crap done on time and manage what you > created after version 0.0.0.1a? That's what Amber is all about. > Bringing order to JavaScript chaos. It's no coincidence that Smalltalk > is probably the best-planned language there is. Ingalls took his time, > was careful, and built a language based on human needs instead of the > needs of the machine because people create and machines do what they > are told. But getting into a my-language-vs-your-language conversation > is a waste of time. Smalltalk's edge will show in the results. That's > where it counts. It's true (and corporate types eat that stuff up). > > Amber's a big deal. It's got something good to say. And Nico has to > say it (as we have to help him). > > I'd love to get an Ingalls quote. Right on the homepage. Has he said > something about the project? Does he know about it? > > On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 8:17:47 AM UTC-5, Chip Nowacek wrote: > > I am running into it everywhere. Amber simply isn't mentioned in > places that it should be. Check out the bottom of this Wikipedia > entry: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_browser > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class > > Understanding of Amber has to be available or > people...well...won't understand it. They won't or can't adopt > what they don't understand. > > Is there a marketing plan? > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "amber-lang" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to [hidden email]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. |
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Well, if the Lively Kernel ever went...live....
He still talks about the Lively Kernel being in Smalltalk.
-- On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 10:21:46 AM UTC-5, Herby wrote: Ingalls also said: "JavaScript is the new Smalltalk." ;-) You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. |
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Probably the most important question: What does Amber want to become?
On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 10:27:36 AM UTC-5, Chip Nowacek wrote: Well, if the Lively Kernel ever went...live....-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. |
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In reply to this post by Herby Vojčík
Who cares. Let's be contrarian.
2013/3/5 Herby Vojčík <[hidden email]>: > Ingalls also said: "JavaScript is the new Smalltalk." ;-) > > Chip Nowacek wrote: >> >> As uncomfortable as it might be for him, Nico's the lead here, he's the >> face. Until someone else is designated as the mouthpiece, he's the man. That >> doesn't mean he has to do all the thinking and planning for marketing. He's >> got plenty on his plate. Thing is: people only identify with people. For >> now, Nico's the guy people can connect with: credentials, experience, >> commitment, project understanding, raison d'être - all that. >> >> Amber is a good story: timeless thinking to manage JavaScript complexity >> (or something like that) >> >> I'm not sure leading with Smalltalk helps. Not to hide it. Don't >> misunderstand. Bottom line, no one really cares - or shouldn't. Here's what >> matters: can you get your crap done on time and manage what you created >> after version 0.0.0.1a? That's what Amber is all about. Bringing order to >> JavaScript chaos. It's no coincidence that Smalltalk > > >> is probably the best-planned language there is. Ingalls took his time, was >> careful, and built a language based on human needs instead of the needs of >> the machine because people create and machines do what they are told. But >> getting into a my-language-vs-your-language conversation is a waste of time. >> Smalltalk's edge will show in the results. That's where it counts. It's true >> (and corporate types eat that stuff up). >> >> Amber's a big deal. It's got something good to say. And Nico has to say it >> (as we have to help him). >> >> I'd love to get an Ingalls quote. Right on the homepage. Has he said >> something about the project? Does he know about it? >> >> On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 8:17:47 AM UTC-5, Chip Nowacek wrote: >> >> I am running into it everywhere. Amber simply isn't mentioned in >> places that it should be. Check out the bottom of this Wikipedia >> entry: >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_browser >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class > > _browser> >> >> >> Understanding of Amber has to be available or >> people...well...won't understand it. They won't or can't adopt >> what they don't understand. >> >> Is there a marketing plan? >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "amber-lang" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [hidden email]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "amber-lang" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [hidden email]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. |
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In reply to this post by Chip Nowacek-2
well said Chip
so if "JavaScript is the new Smalltalk." then we all know that Amber life's mission is fixing what's broken in the first place to make Ingall's phrase literally true. The problem is the world is not ready to listen to such brutal truth. You'll scare all the little birds with your arrogance if you say it. So? Understand marketing: also having tech co-founders in the Silicon Valley (or other tech mecca)using it: lastly, a Kawasaki classic: On Mar 5, 2013, at 12:19 PM, Chip Nowacek wrote: As uncomfortable as it might be for him, Nico's the lead here, he's the face. Until someone else is designated as the mouthpiece, he's the man. That doesn't mean he has to do all the thinking and planning for marketing. He's got plenty on his plate. Thing is: people only identify with people. For now, Nico's the guy people can connect with: credentials, experience, commitment, project understanding, raison d'être - all that. You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. |
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In reply to this post by Chip Nowacek-2
I think the answer to this is quite simple: A great implementation of Smalltalk for the web. Nico On Mar 5, 2013, at 6:01 PM, Chip Nowacek <[hidden email]> wrote: Probably the most important question: What does Amber want to become? -- Nicolas Petton http://www.nicolas-petton.fr -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. |
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In reply to this post by Chip Nowacek-2
It's not that uncomfortable :) And I'm always trying to get people interested in Amber. And so far, people seem to be interested in it. Actually I think that Amber 0.10 (to be released soon) is the first release of Amber being a team work rather than a one man (me) work. And that's truly awesome. Now concrete steps I can think of for promoting Amber: - Improving the website and the doc - Make videos - Promote applications made with Amber Cheers, Nico On Mar 5, 2013, at 4:19 PM, Chip Nowacek <[hidden email]> wrote: As uncomfortable as it might be for him, Nico's the lead here, he's the face. Until someone else is designated as the mouthpiece, he's the man. That doesn't mean he has to do all the thinking and planning for marketing. He's got plenty on his plate. Thing is: people only identify with people. For now, Nico's the guy people can connect with: credentials, experience, commitment, project understanding, raison d'être - all that. -- Nicolas Petton http://www.nicolas-petton.fr -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. |
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In reply to this post by sebastianconcept
If I get nothing from Amber, I will have met Sebastian.
The questions that have been wandering around in my head: how many active Amber projects are there? How many in production? Are there people like me that suck at web development that I can grow up with? How many have looked at it? How many failed? What are the barriers? The barrier that counts the most is the one that's keeping the most people from participating and benefiting. I don't really know how the open source world works from an organizational standpoint. Does the work (marketing, core tech, user on-boarding, internal project management, user project support, etc) get identified, scoped and set on by a team? What's the people structure? I'm not that worried about scaring the birds. They are hungry. Set out the (consumable) food regularly and they will, eventually, flock. I don't really know how birds tell each other there's food but they do. On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 12:57:25 PM UTC-5, Sebastian Sastre wrote:
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In reply to this post by philippeback
It could be nice, indeed.
This week is a bit tight for me though. Next one? Nico On Mar 5, 2013, at 3:44 PM, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> wrote: > Now it gets interesting as this is within my line of business :-) > > What about a podcast or two guys? Anytime this thursday and friday, I > am ready to talk to you over skype, record, and format it all. > > Check some of my work: > > http://castroller.com/Podcasts/SPaMCAST/2962760 > http://philippeback.be/feed/podcast > http://youtube.com/philippeback > > We can also do a symbaloo webmix like the one of Pharo: > http://www.symbaloo.com/mix/pharo > > /Phil > > 2013/3/5 Nicolas Petton <[hidden email]>: >> On Mar 5, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Chip Nowacek <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> Is there a marketing plan? >> >> >> Not really (yet?) >> >> Nico >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "amber-lang" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [hidden email]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- Nicolas Petton http://www.nicolas-petton.fr -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. |
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In reply to this post by Nicolas Petton
"Great implementation" is cool - and hard to measure. Too much room for debate. Debate wastes time. May I suggest a metric?: number of active projects. Even better: number of projects in production. (number of birds on the feeder getting fed that will tell their friends).
Teamwork, as you say, is the key. Who's on the team? Who can do what? Team profile needs to go on the site.
-- On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 1:25:02 PM UTC-5, nicolas petton wrote:
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In reply to this post by Chip Nowacek-2
Well, Chip, maybe that's the
explanation for it!
The more (bull-) shit you find the more food must be around.... That's perhaps the reason why birds won't find Smalltalk. Or in other words. The less serious people exist the less serious stuff is bought and used. Sebastian Am 05.03.2013 10:28, schrieb Chip Nowacek: If I get nothing from Amber, I will have met Sebastian. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. |
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Sebastian, I don't follow. Could you explain further? Are you saying that Smalltalk appeals to a different kind of person, a more rare person, a more serious person?
On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 1:40:43 PM UTC-5, HCSebastian wrote: -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. |
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