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Croquet scene with physics engine and swarm behaviour
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Hallo,
I create 2 scene with Croquet and I make a video of it. Vou can see the video at youTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D51Vx9giJVg The video shows 2 scenes created with Croquet Smalltalk: - A scene with falling domino stones using a physics engine for calculating the movement. The physics engine is Open Dynamics Engine www.ode.org with the Squeak Driver Open Dynamics Engine Construction Kit ODECo languagegame.org:8080/ggame/15. - A scene with a swarm in an aquarium with swarm behaviour. Swarm algorithm is described by Craig W. Reynolds www.red3d.com/cwr/steer/gdc99/. Two members of a swarm can pair, spawn to crate new members. The source code is still in progress but I look for a place to publish it. By for now Willi Griephan |
RE: Croquet scene with physics engine and swarm behaviour
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First I would like to express my appreciations to this enlightening group. We are quite new here, just catching momentum the past month or so and great to be in this idea sharing space stretching the boundaries of human imagination and revel in innovation! Willi, Can you please tell us how you integrate ODE to work with Croquet? We have been working on getting ODE to work with it without much head way. I would appreciate everyone's help on this. Thanks! Regards, Shiva > To: [hidden email] > From: [hidden email] > Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 11:09:30 -0400 > Subject: [croquet-dev] Croquet scene with physics engine and swarm behaviour > > Hallo, > > I create 2 scene with Croquet and I make a video of it. > Vou can see the video at youTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D51Vx9giJVg > > > The video shows 2 scenes created with Croquet Smalltalk: > - A scene with falling domino stones using a physics engine for calculating the > movement. > The physics engine is Open Dynamics Engine www.ode.org with the Squeak Driver > Open Dynamics Engine Construction Kit ODECo languagegame.org:8080/ggame/15. > - A scene with a swarm in an aquarium with swarm behaviour. Swarm algorithm is > described by Craig W. Reynolds www.red3d.com/cwr/steer/gdc99/. Two members of a > swarm can pair, spawn to crate new members. > > The source code is still in progress but I look for a place to publish it. > > By for now > > Willi Griephan Search for videos of Bollywood, Hollywood, Mollywood and every other wood, only on Live.com Try it now! |
Re: Croquet scene with physics engine and swarm behaviour
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The work on integrating ODE into Croquet has mostly been stopped
because ODE gives different results on different machines, which goes against the basic "replicated computation" idea of collaboration in Croquet. It's still kind of fun to play with ODE even though collaboration is broken. The work that Willi has done is probably the most recent and the sources referred to in his note below are a good place to start. Willi, you could contribute your work to the community by putting it in the Monticello CroquetSource PublicContributions project repository at http://source.opencroquet.org/ Dave On 8/18/08, shiva prasath <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > Hai Everyone, > First I would like to express my appreciations to this > enlightening group. We are quite new here, just catching momentum the past > month or so and great to be in this idea sharing space stretching the > boundaries of human imagination and revel in innovation! > > Willi, Can you please tell us how you integrate ODE to > work with Croquet? We have been working on getting ODE to work with it > without much head way. I would appreciate everyone's help on this. Thanks! > > Regards, > Shiva > > > ________________________________ > > To: [hidden email] > > From: [hidden email] > > Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 11:09:30 -0400 > > Subject: [croquet-dev] Croquet scene with physics engine and swarm > behaviour > > > > Hallo, > > > > I create 2 scene with Croquet and I make a video of it. > > Vou can see the video at youTube > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D51Vx9giJVg > > > > > > The video shows 2 scenes created with Croquet Smalltalk: > > - A scene with falling domino stones using a physics engine for > calculating the > > movement. > > The physics engine is Open Dynamics Engine www.ode.org with the Squeak > Driver > > Open Dynamics Engine Construction Kit ODECo > languagegame.org:8080/ggame/15. > > - A scene with a swarm in an aquarium with swarm behaviour. Swarm > algorithm is > > described by Craig W. Reynolds > www.red3d.com/cwr/steer/gdc99/. Two members of a > > swarm can pair, spawn to crate new members. > > > > The source code is still in progress but I look for a place to publish it. > > > > By for now > > > > Willi Griephan > > ________________________________ > Search for videos of Bollywood, Hollywood, Mollywood and every other wood, > only on Live.com Try it now! |
Re: Croquet scene with physics engine and swarm behaviour
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Hi Dave,
do you mean that is the end of physics simulation in Croquet ? Regards Hans Am 20.08.2008 um 16:47 schrieb David Faught: > The work on integrating ODE into Croquet has mostly been stopped > because ODE gives different results on different machines, which goes > against the basic "replicated computation" idea of collaboration in > Croquet. > > It's still kind of fun to play with ODE even though collaboration is > broken. The work that Willi has done is probably the most recent and > the sources referred to in his note below are a good place to start. > > Willi, you could contribute your work to the community by putting it > in the Monticello CroquetSource PublicContributions project repository > at http://source.opencroquet.org/ > > Dave > > On 8/18/08, shiva prasath <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> >> Hai Everyone, >> First I would like to express my appreciations >> to this >> enlightening group. We are quite new here, just catching momentum >> the past >> month or so and great to be in this idea sharing space stretching the >> boundaries of human imagination and revel in innovation! >> >> Willi, Can you please tell us how you >> integrate ODE to >> work with Croquet? We have been working on getting ODE to work >> with it >> without much head way. I would appreciate everyone's help on this. >> Thanks! >> >> Regards, >> Shiva >> >> >> ________________________________ >>> To: [hidden email] >>> From: [hidden email] >>> Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 11:09:30 -0400 >>> Subject: [croquet-dev] Croquet scene with physics engine and swarm >> behaviour >>> >>> Hallo, >>> >>> I create 2 scene with Croquet and I make a video of it. >>> Vou can see the video at youTube >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D51Vx9giJVg >>> >>> >>> The video shows 2 scenes created with Croquet Smalltalk: >>> - A scene with falling domino stones using a physics engine for >> calculating the >>> movement. >>> The physics engine is Open Dynamics Engine www.ode.org with the >>> Squeak >> Driver >>> Open Dynamics Engine Construction Kit ODECo >> languagegame.org:8080/ggame/15. >>> - A scene with a swarm in an aquarium with swarm behaviour. Swarm >> algorithm is >>> described by Craig W. Reynolds >> www.red3d.com/cwr/steer/gdc99/. Two members of a >>> swarm can pair, spawn to crate new members. >>> >>> The source code is still in progress but I look for a place to >>> publish it. >>> >>> By for now >>> >>> Willi Griephan >> >> ________________________________ >> Search for videos of Bollywood, Hollywood, Mollywood and every >> other wood, >> only on Live.com Try it now! > |
Re: Croquet scene with physics engine and swarm behaviour
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Hi Hans,
> Do you mean that is the end of physics simulation in Croquet ? Not really. Just that, when the pent-up demand becomes great enough, someone will either create a (reduced) native physics engine. Or something 3rd party will come along. Or, graphics cards will standardize on hardware acceleration of physics which would be much more consistent. It's very much on the Croquet road map. We are also considering how to determine what really needs to be shared inside an island and what can stay out. This was never really addressed in creating the funding demo of Croquet. The needs of a game are different from the needs of a univ. research project and those are diff. from the needs of a social chat forum and those needs are different from a biz conference room's needs. Cheers, Darius metaverseographer _______________________ On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 12:07 PM, Hans N Beck <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi Dave, |
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In reply to this post by David Faught
hi,Dave
>The work on integrating ODE into Croquet has mostly been stopped >because ODE gives different results on different machines, which goes >against the basic "replicated computation" idea of collaboration in >Croquet. What means "ODE gives different results on different machines" and could you give us more detail infomation about that? If you want to end using ODE physical eng. and which one is best choice? Could you give some advice? Thanks a lot! Cao //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 2008/8/20 David Faught <[hidden email]> The work on integrating ODE into Croquet has mostly been stopped -- --- Junwen cao @Tokyo |
Re: Croquet scene with physics engine and swarm behaviour
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In reply to this post by Hans N Beck-2
Hans N Beck wrote:
> Hi Dave, > > do you mean that is the end of physics simulation in Croquet ? > No. It would not be that hard to make ODE give the same results from the same inputs on all machines. However, it requires attention to detail in the following two areas: 1) getting all floating point computations to be compiled into equivalent calculations - a bunch of detailed work - perhaps choosing a compiler that does this "right" - rather than the vague rules that are often incorporated into C compilers by folks with no numerics background. IEEE 754 provides a basis, but the compiler must cooperate. 2) making sure the PRNG (pseudo-random number generator) is seeded consistently across all replicated instances of a computation. Replicated PRNG's are not hard to do. PRNG's are completely deterministic. Getting these "fixes" into ODE might be politically hard. Not clear the ODE community cares about replicability. But a volunteer could make this happen. > Regards > > > Hans > > Am 20.08.2008 um 16:47 schrieb David Faught: > >> The work on integrating ODE into Croquet has mostly been stopped >> because ODE gives different results on different machines, which goes >> against the basic "replicated computation" idea of collaboration in >> Croquet. >> >> It's still kind of fun to play with ODE even though collaboration is >> broken. The work that Willi has done is probably the most recent and >> the sources referred to in his note below are a good place to start. >> >> Willi, you could contribute your work to the community by putting it >> in the Monticello CroquetSource PublicContributions project repository >> at http://source.opencroquet.org/ >> >> Dave >> >> On 8/18/08, shiva prasath <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hai Everyone, >>> First I would like to express my appreciations to >>> this >>> enlightening group. We are quite new here, just catching momentum >>> the past >>> month or so and great to be in this idea sharing space stretching the >>> boundaries of human imagination and revel in innovation! >>> >>> Willi, Can you please tell us how you integrate >>> ODE to >>> work with Croquet? We have been working on getting ODE to work with it >>> without much head way. I would appreciate everyone's help on this. >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Regards, >>> Shiva >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>>> To: [hidden email] >>>> From: [hidden email] >>>> Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 11:09:30 -0400 >>>> Subject: [croquet-dev] Croquet scene with physics engine and swarm >>> behaviour >>>> >>>> Hallo, >>>> >>>> I create 2 scene with Croquet and I make a video of it. >>>> Vou can see the video at youTube >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D51Vx9giJVg >>>> >>>> >>>> The video shows 2 scenes created with Croquet Smalltalk: >>>> - A scene with falling domino stones using a physics engine for >>> calculating the >>>> movement. >>>> The physics engine is Open Dynamics Engine www.ode.org with the Squeak >>> Driver >>>> Open Dynamics Engine Construction Kit ODECo >>> languagegame.org:8080/ggame/15. >>>> - A scene with a swarm in an aquarium with swarm behaviour. Swarm >>> algorithm is >>>> described by Craig W. Reynolds >>> www.red3d.com/cwr/steer/gdc99/. Two members of a >>>> swarm can pair, spawn to crate new members. >>>> >>>> The source code is still in progress but I look for a place to >>>> publish it. >>>> >>>> By for now >>>> >>>> Willi Griephan >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> Search for videos of Bollywood, Hollywood, Mollywood and every other >>> wood, >>> only on Live.com Try it now! >> > > |
Re: Croquet scene with physics engine and swarm behaviour
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David P. Reed wrote:
> No. It would not be that hard to make ODE give the same results from > the same inputs on all machines. However, it requires attention to > detail in the following two areas: > > 1) getting all floating point computations to be compiled into > equivalent calculations - a bunch of detailed work - perhaps choosing a > compiler that does this "right" - rather than the vague rules that are > often incorporated into C compilers by folks with no numerics > background. IEEE 754 provides a basis, but the compiler must cooperate. To be even more specific, it is necessary to a) disable all the "builtin" math functions (mostly trig) that are approximated by different series on different hardware and replace them by some deterministic library (like fdlibm) and b) disable fused multiply-add if you want this to compile using different compilers (because the choice of fused multiply-add is arbitrary by the compiler). Cheers, - Andreas > 2) making sure the PRNG (pseudo-random number generator) is seeded > consistently across all replicated instances of a computation. > Replicated PRNG's are not hard to do. PRNG's are completely deterministic. > > Getting these "fixes" into ODE might be politically hard. Not clear the > ODE community cares about replicability. > > But a volunteer could make this happen. > > > >> Regards >> >> >> Hans >> >> Am 20.08.2008 um 16:47 schrieb David Faught: >> >>> The work on integrating ODE into Croquet has mostly been stopped >>> because ODE gives different results on different machines, which goes >>> against the basic "replicated computation" idea of collaboration in >>> Croquet. >>> >>> It's still kind of fun to play with ODE even though collaboration is >>> broken. The work that Willi has done is probably the most recent and >>> the sources referred to in his note below are a good place to start. >>> >>> Willi, you could contribute your work to the community by putting it >>> in the Monticello CroquetSource PublicContributions project repository >>> at http://source.opencroquet.org/ >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> On 8/18/08, shiva prasath <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hai Everyone, >>>> First I would like to express my appreciations to >>>> this >>>> enlightening group. We are quite new here, just catching momentum >>>> the past >>>> month or so and great to be in this idea sharing space stretching the >>>> boundaries of human imagination and revel in innovation! >>>> >>>> Willi, Can you please tell us how you integrate >>>> ODE to >>>> work with Croquet? We have been working on getting ODE to work with it >>>> without much head way. I would appreciate everyone's help on this. >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Shiva >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>> From: [hidden email] >>>>> Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 11:09:30 -0400 >>>>> Subject: [croquet-dev] Croquet scene with physics engine and swarm >>>> behaviour >>>>> >>>>> Hallo, >>>>> >>>>> I create 2 scene with Croquet and I make a video of it. >>>>> Vou can see the video at youTube >>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D51Vx9giJVg >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The video shows 2 scenes created with Croquet Smalltalk: >>>>> - A scene with falling domino stones using a physics engine for >>>> calculating the >>>>> movement. >>>>> The physics engine is Open Dynamics Engine www.ode.org with the Squeak >>>> Driver >>>>> Open Dynamics Engine Construction Kit ODECo >>>> languagegame.org:8080/ggame/15. >>>>> - A scene with a swarm in an aquarium with swarm behaviour. Swarm >>>> algorithm is >>>>> described by Craig W. Reynolds >>>> www.red3d.com/cwr/steer/gdc99/. Two members of a >>>>> swarm can pair, spawn to crate new members. >>>>> >>>>> The source code is still in progress but I look for a place to >>>>> publish it. >>>>> >>>>> By for now >>>>> >>>>> Willi Griephan >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> Search for videos of Bollywood, Hollywood, Mollywood and every other >>>> wood, >>>> only on Live.com Try it now! >>> >> >> > |
Re: Croquet scene with physics engine and swarm behaviour
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Hi,
Am 20.08.2008 um 21:41 schrieb Andreas Raab: > David P. Reed wrote: >> No. It would not be that hard to make ODE give the same results >> from the same inputs on all machines. However, it requires >> attention to detail in the following two areas: >> 1) getting all floating point computations to be compiled into >> equivalent calculations - a bunch of detailed work - perhaps >> choosing a compiler that does this "right" - rather than the vague >> rules that are often incorporated into C compilers by folks with no >> numerics background. IEEE 754 provides a basis, but the compiler >> must cooperate. > > To be even more specific, it is necessary to a) disable all the > "builtin" math functions (mostly trig) that are approximated by > different series on different hardware and replace them by some > deterministic library (like fdlibm) and b) disable fused multiply- > add if you want this to compile using different compilers (because > the choice of fused multiply-add is arbitrary by the compiler). > > Cheers, > - Andreas > >> 2) making sure the PRNG (pseudo-random number generator) is >> seeded consistently across all replicated instances of a >> computation. Replicated PRNG's are not hard to do. PRNG's are >> completely deterministic. >> Getting these "fixes" into ODE might be politically hard. Not >> clear the ODE community cares about replicability. >> But a volunteer could make this happen. well, now where I read it, I can see the problem. Too bad that there is no "Numeric VM" which is fast and make sure the replicability of numerics independend from the compiler.... Anyway, beside the law of replicabiltity I still belive it would be interesting *for some applications* that the results would be replicable only in a weak sense = in a statistical sense.... a fascinating perspective (for me :-) So, thanks for explanation ! Regards Hans >> >>> Regards >>> >>> >>> Hans >>> >>> Am 20.08.2008 um 16:47 schrieb David Faught: >>> >>>> The work on integrating ODE into Croquet has mostly been stopped >>>> because ODE gives different results on different machines, which >>>> goes >>>> against the basic "replicated computation" idea of collaboration in >>>> Croquet. >>>> >>>> It's still kind of fun to play with ODE even though collaboration >>>> is >>>> broken. The work that Willi has done is probably the most recent >>>> and >>>> the sources referred to in his note below are a good place to >>>> start. >>>> >>>> Willi, you could contribute your work to the community by putting >>>> it >>>> in the Monticello CroquetSource PublicContributions project >>>> repository >>>> at http://source.opencroquet.org/ >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> On 8/18/08, shiva prasath <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hai Everyone, >>>>> First I would like to express my appreciations >>>>> to this >>>>> enlightening group. We are quite new here, just catching >>>>> momentum the past >>>>> month or so and great to be in this idea sharing space >>>>> stretching the >>>>> boundaries of human imagination and revel in innovation! >>>>> >>>>> Willi, Can you please tell us how you >>>>> integrate ODE to >>>>> work with Croquet? We have been working on getting ODE to work >>>>> with it >>>>> without much head way. I would appreciate everyone's help on >>>>> this. Thanks! >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Shiva >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>>> From: [hidden email] >>>>>> Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 11:09:30 -0400 >>>>>> Subject: [croquet-dev] Croquet scene with physics engine and >>>>>> swarm >>>>> behaviour >>>>>> >>>>>> Hallo, >>>>>> >>>>>> I create 2 scene with Croquet and I make a video of it. >>>>>> Vou can see the video at youTube >>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D51Vx9giJVg >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The video shows 2 scenes created with Croquet Smalltalk: >>>>>> - A scene with falling domino stones using a physics engine for >>>>> calculating the >>>>>> movement. >>>>>> The physics engine is Open Dynamics Engine www.ode.org with the >>>>>> Squeak >>>>> Driver >>>>>> Open Dynamics Engine Construction Kit ODECo >>>>> languagegame.org:8080/ggame/15. >>>>>> - A scene with a swarm in an aquarium with swarm behaviour. Swarm >>>>> algorithm is >>>>>> described by Craig W. Reynolds >>>>> www.red3d.com/cwr/steer/gdc99/. Two members of a >>>>>> swarm can pair, spawn to crate new members. >>>>>> >>>>>> The source code is still in progress but I look for a place to >>>>>> publish it. >>>>>> >>>>>> By for now >>>>>> >>>>>> Willi Griephan >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> Search for videos of Bollywood, Hollywood, Mollywood and every >>>>> other wood, >>>>> only on Live.com Try it now! >>>> >>> >>> > |
Re: Croquet scene with physics engine and swarm behaviour
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Hans - I suspect that one could make a replicable-float VM to run ODE in
one of three ways: 1) Use a qemu or similar VM to run ODE and treat it as a black box peripheral. 2) Use a JIT-style language interpreter that is designed for replicable float computation. Java is enough like C that one might port to a high-performance Java JIT implementation with the float operations specially tuned. 3) Compile the C implementation of ODE into Squeak code. This of course assumes that the Squeak code uses bit-replicated float operations. (it's *supposed* to, but have we tested it?) Hans N Beck wrote: > Hi, > > Am 20.08.2008 um 21:41 schrieb Andreas Raab: > >> David P. Reed wrote: >>> No. It would not be that hard to make ODE give the same results >>> from the same inputs on all machines. However, it requires >>> attention to detail in the following two areas: >>> 1) getting all floating point computations to be compiled into >>> equivalent calculations - a bunch of detailed work - perhaps >>> choosing a compiler that does this "right" - rather than the vague >>> rules that are often incorporated into C compilers by folks with no >>> numerics background. IEEE 754 provides a basis, but the compiler >>> must cooperate. >> >> To be even more specific, it is necessary to a) disable all the >> "builtin" math functions (mostly trig) that are approximated by >> different series on different hardware and replace them by some >> deterministic library (like fdlibm) and b) disable fused multiply-add >> if you want this to compile using different compilers (because the >> choice of fused multiply-add is arbitrary by the compiler). >> >> Cheers, >> - Andreas >> >>> 2) making sure the PRNG (pseudo-random number generator) is seeded >>> consistently across all replicated instances of a computation. >>> Replicated PRNG's are not hard to do. PRNG's are completely >>> deterministic. >>> Getting these "fixes" into ODE might be politically hard. Not clear >>> the ODE community cares about replicability. >>> But a volunteer could make this happen. > > > well, now where I read it, I can see the problem. Too bad that there > is no "Numeric VM" which is fast and make sure the replicability of > numerics independend from the compiler.... > > Anyway, beside the law of replicabiltity I still belive it would be > interesting *for some applications* that the results would be > replicable only in a weak sense = in a statistical sense.... a > fascinating perspective (for me :-) > > So, thanks for explanation ! > > Regards > > Hans > > >>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> >>>> Hans >>>> >>>> Am 20.08.2008 um 16:47 schrieb David Faught: >>>> >>>>> The work on integrating ODE into Croquet has mostly been stopped >>>>> because ODE gives different results on different machines, which goes >>>>> against the basic "replicated computation" idea of collaboration in >>>>> Croquet. >>>>> >>>>> It's still kind of fun to play with ODE even though collaboration is >>>>> broken. The work that Willi has done is probably the most recent and >>>>> the sources referred to in his note below are a good place to start. >>>>> >>>>> Willi, you could contribute your work to the community by putting it >>>>> in the Monticello CroquetSource PublicContributions project >>>>> repository >>>>> at http://source.opencroquet.org/ >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> On 8/18/08, shiva prasath <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hai Everyone, >>>>>> First I would like to express my appreciations >>>>>> to this >>>>>> enlightening group. We are quite new here, just catching momentum >>>>>> the past >>>>>> month or so and great to be in this idea sharing space stretching >>>>>> the >>>>>> boundaries of human imagination and revel in innovation! >>>>>> >>>>>> Willi, Can you please tell us how you >>>>>> integrate ODE to >>>>>> work with Croquet? We have been working on getting ODE to work >>>>>> with it >>>>>> without much head way. I would appreciate everyone's help on >>>>>> this. Thanks! >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Shiva >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>>>> From: [hidden email] >>>>>>> Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 11:09:30 -0400 >>>>>>> Subject: [croquet-dev] Croquet scene with physics engine and swarm >>>>>> behaviour >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hallo, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I create 2 scene with Croquet and I make a video of it. >>>>>>> Vou can see the video at youTube >>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D51Vx9giJVg >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The video shows 2 scenes created with Croquet Smalltalk: >>>>>>> - A scene with falling domino stones using a physics engine for >>>>>> calculating the >>>>>>> movement. >>>>>>> The physics engine is Open Dynamics Engine www.ode.org with the >>>>>>> Squeak >>>>>> Driver >>>>>>> Open Dynamics Engine Construction Kit ODECo >>>>>> languagegame.org:8080/ggame/15. >>>>>>> - A scene with a swarm in an aquarium with swarm behaviour. Swarm >>>>>> algorithm is >>>>>>> described by Craig W. Reynolds >>>>>> www.red3d.com/cwr/steer/gdc99/. Two members of a >>>>>>> swarm can pair, spawn to crate new members. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The source code is still in progress but I look for a place to >>>>>>> publish it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> By for now >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Willi Griephan >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> Search for videos of Bollywood, Hollywood, Mollywood and every >>>>>> other wood, >>>>>> only on Live.com Try it now! >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> > > |
Re: Croquet scene with physics engine and swarm behaviour
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Squeak has perfectly replicated float operations. We discovered very early on that certain operations could fail in edge conditions, so Andreas worked very hard to fix this.
I think it would be possible to do a reasonable ODE like system in Croquet. As noted, the major problem is that ODE does not work properly replicated. Fixing it is non-trivial, though it would probably be welcomed by the rest of the ODE community.
DAS On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 5:14 PM, David P. Reed <[hidden email]> wrote: Hans - I suspect that one could make a replicable-float VM to run ODE in one of three ways: |
Re: Croquet scene with physics engine and swarm behaviour
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In reply to this post by Darius Clarke
There are a few related breadcrumbs that might be worth checking out:
https://lists.duke.edu/sympa/arc/croquet-dev/2006-12/msg00038.html (and the update of Orion's PhysicsEngine package on the Hedgehog PublicContribs repository which that message refers to) http://croquetconsortium.org/index.php/WikiSpace:Wish_List#Physics_Engine_Package and a number of older messages on the Croquet-Dev list that can be found with the advanced search using the keyword "physics". Dave On 8/20/08, Darius Clarke <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi Hans, > > > Do you mean that is the end of physics simulation in Croquet ? > > Not really. > > Just that, when the pent-up demand becomes great enough, someone will either > create a (reduced) native physics engine. Or something 3rd party will come > along. Or, graphics cards will standardize on hardware acceleration of > physics which would be much more consistent. It's very much on the Croquet > road map. > > We are also considering how to determine what really needs to be shared > inside an island and what can stay out. This was never really addressed in > creating the funding demo of Croquet. The needs of a game are different from > the needs of a univ. research project and those are diff. from the needs of > a social chat forum and those needs are different from a biz conference > room's needs. > > Cheers, > Darius > metaverseographer |
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In reply to this post by David P. Reed
OGRE is a great 3D engine, one of the oldest opensource ones.
Cheers, /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 2008/8/21 David P. Reed <[hidden email]>
-- --- Junwen cao @Tokyo |
Re: Croquet scene with physics engine and swarm behaviour
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Well, not that it matters, but ODE is NOT a 3D engine. Not at all. It
is a physics simulator. caocao wrote: > OGRE is a great 3D engine, one of the oldest opensource ones. > > Cheers, > > /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// > 2008/8/21 David P. Reed <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> > > Hans N Beck wrote: > > Hi Dave, > > do you mean that is the end of physics simulation in Croquet ? > > No. It would not be that hard to make ODE give the same results > from the same inputs on all machines. However, it requires > attention to detail in the following two areas: > > 1) getting all floating point computations to be compiled into > equivalent calculations - a bunch of detailed work - perhaps > choosing a compiler that does this "right" - rather than the vague > rules that are often incorporated into C compilers by folks with > no numerics background. IEEE 754 provides a basis, but the > compiler must cooperate. > > 2) making sure the PRNG (pseudo-random number generator) is > seeded consistently across all replicated instances of a > computation. Replicated PRNG's are not hard to do. PRNG's are > completely deterministic. > > Getting these "fixes" into ODE might be politically hard. Not > clear the ODE community cares about replicability. > > But a volunteer could make this happen. > > > > > Regards > > > Hans > > Am 20.08.2008 um 16:47 schrieb David Faught: > > The work on integrating ODE into Croquet has mostly been > stopped > because ODE gives different results on different machines, > which goes > against the basic "replicated computation" idea of > collaboration in > Croquet. > > It's still kind of fun to play with ODE even though > collaboration is > broken. The work that Willi has done is probably the most > recent and > the sources referred to in his note below are a good place > to start. > > Willi, you could contribute your work to the community by > putting it > in the Monticello CroquetSource PublicContributions > project repository > at http://source.opencroquet.org/ > > Dave > > On 8/18/08, shiva prasath <[hidden email] > <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: > > > > Hai Everyone, > First I would like to express my > appreciations to this > enlightening group. We are quite new here, just > catching momentum the past > month or so and great to be in this idea sharing space > stretching the > boundaries of human imagination and revel in innovation! > > Willi, Can you please tell us how > you integrate ODE to > work with Croquet? We have been working on getting > ODE to work with it > without much head way. I would appreciate everyone's > help on this. Thanks! > > Regards, > Shiva > > > ________________________________ > > To: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]> > From: [hidden email] > <mailto:[hidden email]> > Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 11:09:30 -0400 > Subject: [croquet-dev] Croquet scene with physics > engine and swarm > > behaviour > > > Hallo, > > I create 2 scene with Croquet and I make a video > of it. > Vou can see the video at youTube > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D51Vx9giJVg > > > > The video shows 2 scenes created with Croquet > Smalltalk: > - A scene with falling domino stones using a > physics engine for > > calculating the > > movement. > The physics engine is Open Dynamics Engine > www.ode.org <http://www.ode.org> with the Squeak > > Driver > > Open Dynamics Engine Construction Kit ODECo > > languagegame.org:8080/ggame/15 > <http://languagegame.org:8080/ggame/15>. > > - A scene with a swarm in an aquarium with swarm > behaviour. Swarm > > algorithm is > > described by Craig W. Reynolds > > www.red3d.com/cwr/steer/gdc99/ > <http://www.red3d.com/cwr/steer/gdc99/>. Two members of a > > swarm can pair, spawn to crate new members. > > The source code is still in progress but I look > for a place to publish it. > > By for now > > Willi Griephan > > > ________________________________ > Search for videos of Bollywood, Hollywood, Mollywood > and every other wood, > only on Live.com Try it now! > > > > > > > > -- > --- > Junwen cao > @Tokyo |
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In reply to this post by caocao-3
Hi
If I many comment.
Have been working with Distributed X3D sceens for some
time and have spend some time to this "challanges".
Basically ODE are a dynamic engine used by many graphic and
non-grapic systems.
ODE have also a lot of API made for diffrent language
as C++, python,,,
The apporach we could use in X3D are
to give objects dynamic behaviour using ODE in every
client.
In distributed world there are static objects and moving
objects.
Moving objects can be assigned to owner ( clinent user )
and their position ( translation and rotation ) can be sent to all other clients
trough some network protocoll.
More challanges are transfering of ownership between
clients and if two dynamic objects with diffrent owner
collides.
Hope that this approach will help in using ODE to give
dynamic behaviour to the distributed sceen.
As the ODE engines do not need to be compleatly
syncronised.
Though there are need for some syncronisation as the ODE
client need to know about all objects in the sceen both static and
dynamic.
Dynamic objects has properties as mass, inertia, surface
friction and softness.
And most of all position AND motion as velocity in 6
degrees of freedom.
The properties can be stated as the object are loaded to
the client. Note there could be a demand for making these properties changable
at simulation.
Position are defined today in the protocoll, velocity has
either to be defined in a extended protocoll or why not be calculated by the
custom scripts the handels the dynamic behavior of objects in the
client.
IMHO this approach could be used in croquet/sqeek as well,
though I'm not familar with math libs for smalltalk.
/Sven-Erik Tiberg
From: caocao [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: den 23 augusti 2008 02:52 To: [hidden email]; David P. Reed Subject: Re: [croquet-dev] Croquet scene with physics engine and swarm behaviour OGRE is a great 3D engine, one of the oldest opensource
ones.
Cheers, /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 2008/8/21 David P. Reed <[hidden email]>
-- --- Junwen cao @Tokyo |
Re: Croquet scene with physics engine and swarm behaviour
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Hi Sven-Erik,
Yes there is a way to do this with Croquet. It is something of a tradeoff, however. One of the clients computes the physics for the particular interaction, and then sends the results as a replicated external event. The nice thing about this is then everyone gets the same exact physics responses. The problem is the potential significant bandwidth overhead. This last is not necessarily small.
An approach to dealing with the bandwidth is to simply utilize ODE as a collision detection engine and have it generate the new angular and linear momenta. This gets distributed to all of the users for the objects. Since the objects themselves follow normal Newtonian paths, Croquet need only deal with updating these paths and adding any persistent forces, such as gravitation. This will work fine for smaller collections of objects that rarely interact. It is not too good for a hundred objects in a shaking box however, as the number of collisions will quickly dwarf the bandwidth available.
David On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 3:05 AM, Sven-Erik Tiberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Administrator
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In reply to this post by David A. Smith
Does this mean that a physics engine or motion simulator written in 100% Squeak will run identically on different machines and OS's?
Aik-Siong Koh http://ar-cad.com
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Re: Croquet scene with physics engine and swarm behaviour
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askoh wrote:
> Does this mean that a physics engine or motion simulator written in 100% > Squeak will run identically on different machines and OS's? On top of Croquet, yes. Note that it's not entirely correct when David says "Squeak has perfectly replicated float operations". The Squeak from Squeak.org has some primitives which are *not* bit-identical. We have replaced those in Croquet with primitives from fdlibm to produce bit-identical results. You can find them by executing: SystemNavigation new browseAllCallsOn: #FloatMathPlugin. Also, you can verify the behavior by running the CroquetVMTests which include numerous tests for cross-platform bit-identical behavior. Cheers, - Andreas > Aik-Siong Koh > http://ar-cad.com > > > > David Smith-36 wrote: >> Squeak has perfectly replicated float operations. We discovered very early >> on that certain operations could fail in edge conditions, so Andreas >> worked >> very hard to fix this. >> I think it would be possible to do a reasonable ODE like system in >> Croquet. >> As noted, the major problem is that ODE does not work properly replicated. >> Fixing it is non-trivial, though it would probably be welcomed by the rest >> of the ODE community. >> >> DAS >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 5:14 PM, David P. Reed <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> Hans - I suspect that one could make a replicable-float VM to run ODE in >>> one of three ways: >>> >>> 1) Use a qemu or similar VM to run ODE and treat it as a black box >>> peripheral. >>> >>> 2) Use a JIT-style language interpreter that is designed for replicable >>> float computation. Java is enough like C that one might port to a >>> high-performance Java JIT implementation with the float operations >>> specially >>> tuned. >>> >>> 3) Compile the C implementation of ODE into Squeak code. This of >>> course >>> assumes that the Squeak code uses bit-replicated float operations. (it's >>> *supposed* to, but have we tested it?) >>> >>> >>> Hans N Beck wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Am 20.08.2008 um 21:41 schrieb Andreas Raab: >>>> >>>> David P. Reed wrote: >>>>>> No. It would not be that hard to make ODE give the same results from >>>>>> the same inputs on all machines. However, it requires attention to >>>>>> detail >>>>>> in the following two areas: >>>>>> 1) getting all floating point computations to be compiled into >>>>>> equivalent calculations - a bunch of detailed work - perhaps choosing >>>>>> a >>>>>> compiler that does this "right" - rather than the vague rules that are >>>>>> often >>>>>> incorporated into C compilers by folks with no numerics background. >>>>>> IEEE >>>>>> 754 provides a basis, but the compiler must cooperate. >>>>>> >>>>> To be even more specific, it is necessary to a) disable all the >>>>> "builtin" >>>>> math functions (mostly trig) that are approximated by different series >>>>> on >>>>> different hardware and replace them by some deterministic library (like >>>>> fdlibm) and b) disable fused multiply-add if you want this to compile >>>>> using >>>>> different compilers (because the choice of fused multiply-add is >>>>> arbitrary >>>>> by the compiler). >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> - Andreas >>>>> >>>>> 2) making sure the PRNG (pseudo-random number generator) is seeded >>>>>> consistently across all replicated instances of a computation. >>>>>> Replicated >>>>>> PRNG's are not hard to do. PRNG's are completely deterministic. >>>>>> Getting these "fixes" into ODE might be politically hard. Not clear >>>>>> the >>>>>> ODE community cares about replicability. >>>>>> But a volunteer could make this happen. >>>>>> >>>> well, now where I read it, I can see the problem. Too bad that there is >>>> no >>>> "Numeric VM" which is fast and make sure the replicability of numerics >>>> independend from the compiler.... >>>> >>>> Anyway, beside the law of replicabiltity I still belive it would be >>>> interesting *for some applications* that the results would be replicable >>>> only in a weak sense = in a statistical sense.... a fascinating >>>> perspective >>>> (for me :-) >>>> >>>> So, thanks for explanation ! >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Hans >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Regards >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hans >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Am 20.08.2008 um 16:47 schrieb David Faught: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The work on integrating ODE into Croquet has mostly been stopped >>>>>>>> because ODE gives different results on different machines, which >>>>>>>> goes >>>>>>>> against the basic "replicated computation" idea of collaboration in >>>>>>>> Croquet. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's still kind of fun to play with ODE even though collaboration is >>>>>>>> broken. The work that Willi has done is probably the most recent >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> the sources referred to in his note below are a good place to start. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Willi, you could contribute your work to the community by putting it >>>>>>>> in the Monticello CroquetSource PublicContributions project >>>>>>>> repository >>>>>>>> at http://source.opencroquet.org/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dave >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 8/18/08, shiva prasath <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hai Everyone, >>>>>>>>> First I would like to express my appreciations to >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>> enlightening group. We are quite new here, just catching momentum >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> past >>>>>>>>> month or so and great to be in this idea sharing space stretching >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> boundaries of human imagination and revel in innovation! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Willi, Can you please tell us how you integrate >>>>>>>>> ODE to >>>>>>>>> work with Croquet? We have been working on getting ODE to work >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> without much head way. I would appreciate everyone's help on this. >>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Shiva >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>>>>>>> From: [hidden email] >>>>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 11:09:30 -0400 >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [croquet-dev] Croquet scene with physics engine and swarm >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> behaviour >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hallo, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I create 2 scene with Croquet and I make a video of it. >>>>>>>>>> Vou can see the video at youTube >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D51Vx9giJVg >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The video shows 2 scenes created with Croquet Smalltalk: >>>>>>>>>> - A scene with falling domino stones using a physics engine for >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> calculating the >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> movement. >>>>>>>>>> The physics engine is Open Dynamics Engine www.ode.org with the >>>>>>>>>> Squeak >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Driver >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Open Dynamics Engine Construction Kit ODECo >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> languagegame.org:8080/ggame/15. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> - A scene with a swarm in an aquarium with swarm behaviour. Swarm >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> algorithm is >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> described by Craig W. Reynolds >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> www.red3d.com/cwr/steer/gdc99/. Two members of a >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> swarm can pair, spawn to crate new members. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The source code is still in progress but I look for a place to >>>>>>>>>> publish it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> By for now >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Willi Griephan >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Search for videos of Bollywood, Hollywood, Mollywood and every >>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>> wood, >>>>>>>>> only on Live.com Try it now! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >> > |
Re: Croquet scene with physics engine and swarm behaviour
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In reply to this post by askoh
In the Croquet VM version, yes.
DAS askoh wrote: > Does this mean that a physics engine or motion simulator written in 100% > Squeak will run identically on different machines and OS's? > > Aik-Siong Koh > http://ar-cad.com > > > > David Smith-36 wrote: > >> Squeak has perfectly replicated float operations. We discovered very early >> on that certain operations could fail in edge conditions, so Andreas >> worked >> very hard to fix this. >> I think it would be possible to do a reasonable ODE like system in >> Croquet. >> As noted, the major problem is that ODE does not work properly replicated. >> Fixing it is non-trivial, though it would probably be welcomed by the rest >> of the ODE community. >> >> DAS >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 5:14 PM, David P. Reed <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> >>> Hans - I suspect that one could make a replicable-float VM to run ODE in >>> one of three ways: >>> >>> 1) Use a qemu or similar VM to run ODE and treat it as a black box >>> peripheral. >>> >>> 2) Use a JIT-style language interpreter that is designed for replicable >>> float computation. Java is enough like C that one might port to a >>> high-performance Java JIT implementation with the float operations >>> specially >>> tuned. >>> >>> 3) Compile the C implementation of ODE into Squeak code. This of >>> course >>> assumes that the Squeak code uses bit-replicated float operations. (it's >>> *supposed* to, but have we tested it?) >>> >>> >>> Hans N Beck wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Am 20.08.2008 um 21:41 schrieb Andreas Raab: >>>> >>>> David P. Reed wrote: >>>> >>>>>> No. It would not be that hard to make ODE give the same results from >>>>>> the same inputs on all machines. However, it requires attention to >>>>>> detail >>>>>> in the following two areas: >>>>>> 1) getting all floating point computations to be compiled into >>>>>> equivalent calculations - a bunch of detailed work - perhaps choosing >>>>>> a >>>>>> compiler that does this "right" - rather than the vague rules that are >>>>>> often >>>>>> incorporated into C compilers by folks with no numerics background. >>>>>> IEEE >>>>>> 754 provides a basis, but the compiler must cooperate. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> To be even more specific, it is necessary to a) disable all the >>>>> "builtin" >>>>> math functions (mostly trig) that are approximated by different series >>>>> on >>>>> different hardware and replace them by some deterministic library (like >>>>> fdlibm) and b) disable fused multiply-add if you want this to compile >>>>> using >>>>> different compilers (because the choice of fused multiply-add is >>>>> arbitrary >>>>> by the compiler). >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> - Andreas >>>>> >>>>> 2) making sure the PRNG (pseudo-random number generator) is seeded >>>>> >>>>>> consistently across all replicated instances of a computation. >>>>>> Replicated >>>>>> PRNG's are not hard to do. PRNG's are completely deterministic. >>>>>> Getting these "fixes" into ODE might be politically hard. Not clear >>>>>> the >>>>>> ODE community cares about replicability. >>>>>> But a volunteer could make this happen. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> well, now where I read it, I can see the problem. Too bad that there is >>>> no >>>> "Numeric VM" which is fast and make sure the replicability of numerics >>>> independend from the compiler.... >>>> >>>> Anyway, beside the law of replicabiltity I still belive it would be >>>> interesting *for some applications* that the results would be replicable >>>> only in a weak sense = in a statistical sense.... a fascinating >>>> perspective >>>> (for me :-) >>>> >>>> So, thanks for explanation ! >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Hans >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hans >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Am 20.08.2008 um 16:47 schrieb David Faught: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The work on integrating ODE into Croquet has mostly been stopped >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> because ODE gives different results on different machines, which >>>>>>>> goes >>>>>>>> against the basic "replicated computation" idea of collaboration in >>>>>>>> Croquet. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's still kind of fun to play with ODE even though collaboration is >>>>>>>> broken. The work that Willi has done is probably the most recent >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> the sources referred to in his note below are a good place to start. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Willi, you could contribute your work to the community by putting it >>>>>>>> in the Monticello CroquetSource PublicContributions project >>>>>>>> repository >>>>>>>> at http://source.opencroquet.org/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dave >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 8/18/08, shiva prasath <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hai Everyone, >>>>>>>>> First I would like to express my appreciations to >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>> enlightening group. We are quite new here, just catching momentum >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> past >>>>>>>>> month or so and great to be in this idea sharing space stretching >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> boundaries of human imagination and revel in innovation! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Willi, Can you please tell us how you integrate >>>>>>>>> ODE to >>>>>>>>> work with Croquet? We have been working on getting ODE to work >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> without much head way. I would appreciate everyone's help on this. >>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Shiva >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>>>>>>> From: [hidden email] >>>>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 11:09:30 -0400 >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [croquet-dev] Croquet scene with physics engine and swarm >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> behaviour >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hallo, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I create 2 scene with Croquet and I make a video of it. >>>>>>>>>> Vou can see the video at youTube >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D51Vx9giJVg >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The video shows 2 scenes created with Croquet Smalltalk: >>>>>>>>>> - A scene with falling domino stones using a physics engine for >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> calculating the >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> movement. >>>>>>>>>> The physics engine is Open Dynamics Engine www.ode.org with the >>>>>>>>>> Squeak >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Driver >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Open Dynamics Engine Construction Kit ODECo >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> languagegame.org:8080/ggame/15. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> - A scene with a swarm in an aquarium with swarm behaviour. Swarm >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> algorithm is >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> described by Craig W. Reynolds >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> www.red3d.com/cwr/steer/gdc99/. Two members of a >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> swarm can pair, spawn to crate new members. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The source code is still in progress but I look for a place to >>>>>>>>>> publish it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> By for now >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Willi Griephan >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Search for videos of Bollywood, Hollywood, Mollywood and every >>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>> wood, >>>>>>>>> only on Live.com Try it now! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >> > > |
Re: Croquet scene with physics engine other than ode
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In reply to this post by David Faught
hello, Here i saw one c++ library called cal3D,with the help of this, we can export skeleton,mesh,object and animation of the object from some animation software(3dmax , milkshape3D) to this library, so it is easy way to make every thing in animation software and export it to this library and from that library we connect croquet for make new application, i thing its helpful for physics application have any idea help us charles joe |
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