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[Election] Candidate list with 11 candidates is final, 6 days until election starts!

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Göran Krampe

[Election] Candidate list with 11 candidates is final, 6 days until election starts!

Hi all!

The candidates for the 2010 Squeak Oversight Board are now finalized and
we have 11 brave souls in order of candidacy announcement:

* Bert Freudenberg
* Andreas Raab
* Edgar De Cleene
* Chris Muller
* Jecel Assumpcao Jr
* Matthew Fulmer
* Juan Vuletich
* Michael Haupt
* Randal Schwartz
* Gary Dunn
* Craig Latta

The election will produce 7 board members and leave 4 out of it until
next year :)

Now, there are 6 days left for campaigning until the actual ballots are
sent out and voting starts. Voting goes on for a full week.

Again, all details are on the wiki page below and if you didn't get a
ballot last year then you need to get onto the voters list BEFORE the
election starts!

See: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6150

regards, Göran

Andreas.Raab

Re: [Election] Candidate list with 11 candidates is final, 6 days until election starts!

Thanks Göran.

Since this is the campaigning period I'd like to invite people to ask
questions. Most of the candidates have made statements about their
interests and directions, so I feel the floor should be open for the
community to ask questions.

If there's anything you would like to know from the candidates before
you cast your vote, now's a pretty good time to get some answers :-)

Cheers,
- Andreas

On 3/4/2010 5:37 AM, Göran Krampe wrote:

> Hi all!
>
> The candidates for the 2010 Squeak Oversight Board are now finalized and
> we have 11 brave souls in order of candidacy announcement:
>
> * Bert Freudenberg
> * Andreas Raab
> * Edgar De Cleene
> * Chris Muller
> * Jecel Assumpcao Jr
> * Matthew Fulmer
> * Juan Vuletich
> * Michael Haupt
> * Randal Schwartz
> * Gary Dunn
> * Craig Latta
>
> The election will produce 7 board members and leave 4 out of it until
> next year :)
>
> Now, there are 6 days left for campaigning until the actual ballots are
> sent out and voting starts. Voting goes on for a full week.
>
> Again, all details are on the wiki page below and if you didn't get a
> ballot last year then you need to get onto the voters list BEFORE the
> election starts!
>
> See: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6150
>
> regards, Göran
>
>
>

garduino

Re: [Election] Candidate list with 11 candidates is final, 6 days until election starts!

Well, is nice to have the possibility of ask things, but......also
some candidates
have said little or nothing. I will not vote for people who do not
communicate their plans.

One concern I've (among several others) is about the heavily used frameworks
that have moved its development to Pharo, for example Magritte, Seaside.

What would happen if at some point such frameworks start not working on
Squeak? You (insert the candidate name here) think that Squeak Board/community
should do anything about it or it is a responsibility of the authors
of the framework?

Cheers.
Germán.

2010/3/5 Andreas Raab <[hidden email]>:

> Thanks Göran.
>
> Since this is the campaigning period I'd like to invite people to ask
> questions. Most of the candidates have made statements about their interests
> and directions, so I feel the floor should be open for the community to ask
> questions.
>
> If there's anything you would like to know from the candidates before you
> cast your vote, now's a pretty good time to get some answers :-)
>
> Cheers,
> - Andreas
>
> On 3/4/2010 5:37 AM, Göran Krampe wrote:
>>
>> Hi all!
>>
>> The candidates for the 2010 Squeak Oversight Board are now finalized and
>> we have 11 brave souls in order of candidacy announcement:
>>
>> * Bert Freudenberg
>> * Andreas Raab
>> * Edgar De Cleene
>> * Chris Muller
>> * Jecel Assumpcao Jr
>> * Matthew Fulmer
>> * Juan Vuletich
>> * Michael Haupt
>> * Randal Schwartz
>> * Gary Dunn
>> * Craig Latta
>>
>> The election will produce 7 board members and leave 4 out of it until
>> next year :)
>>
>> Now, there are 6 days left for campaigning until the actual ballots are
>> sent out and voting starts. Voting goes on for a full week.
>>
>> Again, all details are on the wiki page below and if you didn't get a
>> ballot last year then you need to get onto the voters list BEFORE the
>> election starts!
>>
>> See: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6150
>>
>> regards, Göran
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

Nicolas Cellier

Re: [Election] Candidate list with 11 candidates is final, 6 days until election starts!

2010/3/5 Germán Arduino <[hidden email]>:

> Well, is nice to have the possibility of ask things, but......also
> some candidates
> have said little or nothing. I will not vote for people who do not
> communicate their plans.
>
> One concern I've (among several others) is about the heavily used frameworks
> that have moved its development to Pharo, for example Magritte, Seaside.
>
> What would happen if at some point such frameworks start not working on
> Squeak? You (insert the candidate name here) think that Squeak Board/community
> should do anything about it or it is a responsibility of the authors
> of the framework?
>
> Cheers.
> Germán.
>

Seaside is cross-dialect compatible.
It is just a matter of adapting Grease (the compatibility layer).

Maybe same for Magritte?

Nicolas

>
> 2010/3/5 Andreas Raab <[hidden email]>:
>> Thanks Göran.
>>
>> Since this is the campaigning period I'd like to invite people to ask
>> questions. Most of the candidates have made statements about their interests
>> and directions, so I feel the floor should be open for the community to ask
>> questions.
>>
>> If there's anything you would like to know from the candidates before you
>> cast your vote, now's a pretty good time to get some answers :-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> - Andreas
>>
>> On 3/4/2010 5:37 AM, Göran Krampe wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all!
>>>
>>> The candidates for the 2010 Squeak Oversight Board are now finalized and
>>> we have 11 brave souls in order of candidacy announcement:
>>>
>>> * Bert Freudenberg
>>> * Andreas Raab
>>> * Edgar De Cleene
>>> * Chris Muller
>>> * Jecel Assumpcao Jr
>>> * Matthew Fulmer
>>> * Juan Vuletich
>>> * Michael Haupt
>>> * Randal Schwartz
>>> * Gary Dunn
>>> * Craig Latta
>>>
>>> The election will produce 7 board members and leave 4 out of it until
>>> next year :)
>>>
>>> Now, there are 6 days left for campaigning until the actual ballots are
>>> sent out and voting starts. Voting goes on for a full week.
>>>
>>> Again, all details are on the wiki page below and if you didn't get a
>>> ballot last year then you need to get onto the voters list BEFORE the
>>> election starts!
>>>
>>> See: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6150
>>>
>>> regards, Göran
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Michael Haupt-3

Re: [Election] Candidate list with 11 candidates is final, 6 days until election starts!

In reply to this post by garduino

Germán,

since interoperability was on my list, here's an attempt ... :-)

On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 12:13 PM, Germán Arduino <[hidden email]> wrote:
> What would happen if at some point such frameworks start not working on
> Squeak? You (insert the candidate name here) think that Squeak Board/community
> should do anything about it or it is a responsibility of the authors
> of the framework?

Regarding the role of the board, I refer to the politician thing again
that was raised numerous times in that other thread. ;-)

The board should care about these things in my opinion. So how does
taking care look? Shaping and fostering an infrastructure that allows
for interoperability / applicability of packages and frameworks across
systems. That is,

* find which compatibility layers (like Grease, which Nicolas mentioned) exist,
* devote special attention to them by writing tests tests tests in all
available systems and frequently run them,
* encourage developers to actually use such compatibility layers by
keeping them up to date.

Actual developers will have to do something as well, obviously.

About the community: it should come to a conclusion whether there is
actual *interest* in having a package available across system
boundaries. Would the Pharo community like to include Etoys? I doubt
it, so the Pharo community will have little incentive to drive
interoperability in this particular regard.

Best,

Michael

garduino

Re: [Election] Candidate list with 11 candidates is final, 6 days until election starts!

2010/3/5 Michael Haupt <[hidden email]>:

> Germán,
>
> since interoperability was on my list, here's an attempt ... :-)
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 12:13 PM, Germán Arduino <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> What would happen if at some point such frameworks start not working on
>> Squeak? You (insert the candidate name here) think that Squeak Board/community
>> should do anything about it or it is a responsibility of the authors
>> of the framework?
>
> Regarding the role of the board, I refer to the politician thing again
> that was raised numerous times in that other thread. ;-)
>
> The board should care about these things in my opinion. So how does
> taking care look? Shaping and fostering an infrastructure that allows
> for interoperability / applicability of packages and frameworks across
> systems. That is,
>
> * find which compatibility layers (like Grease, which Nicolas mentioned) exist,
> * devote special attention to them by writing tests tests tests in all
> available systems and frequently run them,
> * encourage developers to actually use such compatibility layers by
> keeping them up to date.
>
> Actual developers will have to do something as well, obviously.
>
> About the community: it should come to a conclusion whether there is
> actual *interest* in having a package available across system
> boundaries. Would the Pharo community like to include Etoys? I doubt
> it, so the Pharo community will have little incentive to drive
> interoperability in this particular regard.
>
> Best,
>
> Michael
>
>

Thanks by your response Michael!

About your comment on the interest of communities is true, but my question
point to the fact that may be Squeak community/Board should or
shouldn't consider
some packages as important (strategic?).

For example, web development is important to most of Squeak community? Or not?

Cheers.

--
=================================================
Germán S. Arduino <gsa @ arsol.net> Twitter: garduino
Arduino Software & Web Hosting http://www.arduinosoftware.com
PasswordsPro http://www.passwordspro.com
=================================================

Edgar J. De Cleene

Re: [Election] Candidate list with 11 candidates is final, 6 days until election starts!

On 3/5/10 10:02 AM, "Germán Arduino" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> For example, web development is important to most of Squeak community? Or not?
>
> Cheers.

It's very important.

For the record, the in works FunSqueak for the next Monday have Metacello.
A tool I saw in Smalltalks 2009 was Glamour, having OmniBrowser with
scripting could be terrific.

Edgar

Michael Haupt-3

Re: [Election] Candidate list with 11 candidates is final, 6 days until election starts!

In reply to this post by garduino

Germán,

On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Germán Arduino <[hidden email]> wrote:
> About your comment on the interest of communities is true, but my question
> point to the fact that may be Squeak community/Board should or
> shouldn't consider
> some packages as important (strategic?).
>
> For example, web development is important to most of Squeak community? Or not?

tough one. :-)

*I* think web development *is* important, so Seaside/Pier (involving
Magritte) should be considered important in this regard. *I* also
think Etoys is important.

What the community thinks? I do not know, honestly. Asking the
community would help. Polls again. In any case, if there is sufficient
interest (not that of a majority, that is) in some package, it should
be considered important.

Best,

Michael

Bert Freudenberg

Re: [Election] Candidate list with 11 candidates is final, 6 days until election starts!

On 05.03.2010, at 13:40, Michael Haupt wrote:

>
> Germán,
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Germán Arduino <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> About your comment on the interest of communities is true, but my question
>> point to the fact that may be Squeak community/Board should or
>> shouldn't consider
>> some packages as important (strategic?).
>>
>> For example, web development is important to most of Squeak community? Or not?
>
> tough one. :-)
>
> *I* think web development *is* important, so Seaside/Pier (involving
> Magritte) should be considered important in this regard. *I* also
> think Etoys is important.
>
> What the community thinks? I do not know, honestly. Asking the
> community would help. Polls again. In any case, if there is sufficient
> interest (not that of a majority, that is) in some package, it should
> be considered important.

I don't think polls are needed in the case of web development. It's important to Squeak, period.

- Bert -

Michael Haupt-3

Re: [Election] Candidate list with 11 candidates is final, 6 days until election starts!

Hi Bert,

On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I don't think polls are needed in the case of web development. It's important to Squeak, period.

amen. I meant that in a broader sense, of course. I would not poll the
community on this one. :-)

Best,

Michael

Randal L. Schwartz

Re: [Election] Candidate list with 11 candidates is final, 6 days until election starts!

In reply to this post by garduino

>>>>> "Germán" == Germán Arduino <[hidden email]> writes:

Germán> What would happen if at some point such frameworks start not working on
Germán> Squeak? You (insert the candidate name here) think that Squeak Board/community
Germán> should do anything about it or it is a responsibility of the authors
Germán> of the framework?

I agree with what others have said in this thread.

But let me also add that my vision is that we continue towards some degree of
base compatibility, not just between the Squeak forks, but also with GST and
the Cincom products and GemStone/S and other commercial smalltalks. If this
can be achieved at the core, that'd be great, but if we can keep up the work
on both tools (Grease, Monticello) and documentation (such as the Seaside
Porters Guidelines) that allow people to write cross-platform tools and
applications, that'll work.

To this end, I see the core Squeak as getting smaller, but possibly broader in
base functionality, with more things being *unloaded and loadable*, such as
the recent effort to replace Traits with a lightweight loadable compatibility
layer. Yeay!

--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<[hidden email]> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion

Michael Haupt-3

Re: [Election] Candidate list with 11 candidates is final, 6 days until election starts!

Hi Randal,

On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Randal L. Schwartz
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> But let me also add that my vision is that we continue towards some degree of
> base compatibility, not just between the Squeak forks, but also with GST and
> the Cincom products and GemStone/S and other commercial smalltalks. If this
> can be achieved at the core, that'd be great, but if we can keep up the work
> on both tools (Grease, Monticello) and documentation (such as the Seaside
> Porters Guidelines) that allow people to write cross-platform tools and
> applications, that'll work.

I fully agree with the compatibility item. I doubt, though, that it
will be possible to realise this at the core of Squeak given the
(historically grown) differences to GST/VW/STX/... - Squeak should not
commit to being every Smalltalk at once. (I know you're not saying
that, this is just a little exaggeration.)

There used to be a thing called Sport (Smalltalk portability library).
I haven't checked its status - what shape is it in? Does anyone know?

Best,

Michael

Miguel Cobá

Re: [Election] Candidate list with 11 candidates is final, 6 days until election starts!

In reply to this post by Michael Haupt-3

El vie, 05-03-2010 a las 12:45 +0100, Michael Haupt escribió:

> Germán,
>
> since interoperability was on my list, here's an attempt ... :-)
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 12:13 PM, Germán Arduino <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > What would happen if at some point such frameworks start not working on
> > Squeak? You (insert the candidate name here) think that Squeak Board/community
> > should do anything about it or it is a responsibility of the authors
> > of the framework?
>
> Regarding the role of the board, I refer to the politician thing again
> that was raised numerous times in that other thread. ;-)
>
> The board should care about these things in my opinion. So how does
> taking care look? Shaping and fostering an infrastructure that allows
> for interoperability / applicability of packages and frameworks across
> systems. That is,
>
> * find which compatibility layers (like Grease, which Nicolas mentioned) exist,
> * devote special attention to them by writing tests tests tests in all
> available systems and frequently run them,
> * encourage developers to actually use such compatibility layers by
> keeping them up to date.
>
> Actual developers will have to do something as well, obviously.
>
> About the community: it should come to a conclusion whether there is
> actual *interest* in having a package available across system
> boundaries. Would the Pharo community like to include Etoys? I doubt
> it, so the Pharo community will have little incentive to drive
> interoperability in this particular regard.

I disagree, the problem with etoys is that is (was) not maintained in
Squeak, it was old, it impregnated everything and is wrongly was posed
as the reason for Squeak to exist. Pharo is more akin to the idea of a
development platform, not only web development, but a general
development platform. So if Seaside, Magritte, Etoys or whatever is
loadable in a core/dev Pharo image, the Pharo guys happily use it.
It is just that we don't want to have it in the core image. For us is
just a package that you can load in Pharo (when Etoys is a real laodable
plackage) and use it if you need it. Isn't nothing different as Seaside
for someone that don't give a dime for Seaside. If it can be loaded
good, if isn't part of the core image, better yet.

Cheers

>
> Best,
>
> Michael
>

--
Miguel Cobá
http://miguel.leugim.com.mx

Michael Haupt-3

Re: [Election] Candidate list with 11 candidates is final, 6 days until election starts!

Hi Miguel,

thank you for the insightful remarks.

2010/3/5 Miguel Enrique Cobá Martinez <[hidden email]>:
> ... So if Seaside, Magritte, Etoys or whatever is
> loadable in a core/dev Pharo image, the Pharo guys happily use it.
> It is just that we don't want to have it in the core image. For us is
> just a package that you can load in Pharo (when Etoys is a real laodable
> plackage) and use it if you need it. Isn't nothing different as Seaside
> for someone that don't give a dime for Seaside. If it can be loaded
> good, if isn't part of the core image, better yet.

Isn't Etoys (un)loadable in Squeak these days?

The core image thing is really not that much of an issue; given a set
of loadable packages, any kind of image can be tailored and made
available for download.

Best,

Michael

Miguel Cobá

Re: [Election] Candidate list with 11 candidates is final, 6 days until election starts!

El vie, 05-03-2010 a las 16:54 +0100, Michael Haupt escribió:

> Hi Miguel,
>
> thank you for the insightful remarks.
>
> 2010/3/5 Miguel Enrique Cobá Martinez <[hidden email]>:
> > ... So if Seaside, Magritte, Etoys or whatever is
> > loadable in a core/dev Pharo image, the Pharo guys happily use it.
> > It is just that we don't want to have it in the core image. For us is
> > just a package that you can load in Pharo (when Etoys is a real laodable
> > plackage) and use it if you need it. Isn't nothing different as Seaside
> > for someone that don't give a dime for Seaside. If it can be loaded
> > good, if isn't part of the core image, better yet.
>
> Isn't Etoys (un)loadable in Squeak these days?

Yes, but Squeak is working the opposite path than Pharo.

Pharo builds and strips everything not wanted in core and PUBLISH a core
image. Then the users or interested developers, build different
"distros" using the PharoCore and a handful of Metacello configurations.
Then those distros are published for the final users to use. Also, there
is an implicit "build your own" image in all this community. They are
given the core, the list of Metacello configurations and the knowledge
to build their own custom, nothing more than necessary, image. The dev
images that are being built are for the users that want a image ready to
use, but the idea is that each developer of user of Pharo just build
their custom image (Pharo is giving options). So if someone wants an
image with RFB, Seaside and Etoys, just take a PharoCore, and loads
ConfigurationOfRFB, ConfigurationOfSeaside and ConfigurationOfEtoys
(when available) and is done.
No need to have everything but the sink and then "unload" what you don't
want (and searching and knowing what you don't need is not an easy
thing). Is just the opposite, put just what you need.

Cheers

>
> The core image thing is really not that much of an issue; given a set
> of loadable packages, any kind of image can be tailored and made
> available for download.
>
> Best,
>
> Michael
>

--
Miguel Cobá
http://miguel.leugim.com.mx

Andreas.Raab

Re: [Election] Candidate list with 11 candidates is final, 6 days until election starts!

On 3/5/2010 8:30 AM, Miguel Enrique Cobá Martinez wrote:

> El vie, 05-03-2010 a las 16:54 +0100, Michael Haupt escribió:
>> Hi Miguel,
>>
>> thank you for the insightful remarks.
>>
>> 2010/3/5 Miguel Enrique Cobá Martinez<[hidden email]>:
>>> ... So if Seaside, Magritte, Etoys or whatever is
>>> loadable in a core/dev Pharo image, the Pharo guys happily use it.
>>> It is just that we don't want to have it in the core image. For us is
>>> just a package that you can load in Pharo (when Etoys is a real laodable
>>> plackage) and use it if you need it. Isn't nothing different as Seaside
>>> for someone that don't give a dime for Seaside. If it can be loaded
>>> good, if isn't part of the core image, better yet.
>>
>> Isn't Etoys (un)loadable in Squeak these days?
>
> Yes, but Squeak is working the opposite path than Pharo.

You're confusing packaging with direction. The direction of Squeak is
very clearly towards more modularity. The packaging hasn't been decided
yet and it's too early to say how this is going to look.

Cheers,
- Andreas

> Pharo builds and strips everything not wanted in core and PUBLISH a core
> image. Then the users or interested developers, build different
> "distros" using the PharoCore and a handful of Metacello configurations.
> Then those distros are published for the final users to use. Also, there
> is an implicit "build your own" image in all this community. They are
> given the core, the list of Metacello configurations and the knowledge
> to build their own custom, nothing more than necessary, image. The dev
> images that are being built are for the users that want a image ready to
> use, but the idea is that each developer of user of Pharo just build
> their custom image (Pharo is giving options). So if someone wants an
> image with RFB, Seaside and Etoys, just take a PharoCore, and loads
> ConfigurationOfRFB, ConfigurationOfSeaside and ConfigurationOfEtoys
> (when available) and is done.
> No need to have everything but the sink and then "unload" what you don't
> want (and searching and knowing what you don't need is not an easy
> thing). Is just the opposite, put just what you need.
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
>>
>> The core image thing is really not that much of an issue; given a set
>> of loadable packages, any kind of image can be tailored and made
>> available for download.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Michael
>>
>

Ralph Johnson

Re: [Election] Candidate list with 11 candidates is final, 6 days until election starts!

In reply to this post by Miguel Cobá

2010/3/5 Miguel Enrique Cobá Martinez <[hidden email]>

Yes, but Squeak is working the opposite path than Pharo.

No, for some years Squeak has had the same goal, to have a core and to let people add what they want. Packages have been steadily removed from Squeak since 3.8.

There are certainly differences between Squeak and Pharo, but this isn't it.

-Ralph

Miguel Cobá

Re: [Election] Candidate list with 11 candidates is final, 6 days until election starts!

In reply to this post by Andreas.Raab

El vie, 05-03-2010 a las 08:43 -0800, Andreas Raab escribió:

> >> Isn't Etoys (un)loadable in Squeak these days?
> >
> > Yes, but Squeak is working the opposite path than Pharo.
>
> You're confusing packaging with direction. The direction of Squeak is
> very clearly towards more modularity. The packaging hasn't been decided
> yet and it's too early to say how this is going to look.
>
> Cheers,
> - Andreas

Ok, so if you give a truck and tell me, hey but look, you can
disassemble it anytime you want and if you remove the parts you don't
like you could get with a marvelous 2 seat coupé that is perfect for
*your* problem (the one I am trying to solve using Squeak/Pharo) isn't
really helping me.

The truck is very good for touring the country and showing of what a
brand new truck is good for.
But not everyone want to buy trucks, a lot of people will want to buy
some basic truck to adapt to own needs:

http://www.nissan.com.mx/compara_versiones/index.php?IdMod=29

So that is why I refer with the opposite version, not about if something
can be disassembled or not.

Cheers
--
Miguel Cobá
http://miguel.leugim.com.mx

Michael Haupt-3

Re: [Election] Candidate list with 11 candidates is final, 6 days until election starts!

In reply to this post by Miguel Cobá

Miguel,

Am 05.03.2010 um 17:30 schrieb Miguel Enrique Cobá Martinez <[hidden email]
m>:
> Yes, but Squeak is working the opposite path than Pharo.

right. So? :-)

It is correct that there is no default core image of Squeak right now,
but as you are most well aware, the next release is not there yet, and
preparing a set of preconfigured images is probably of lower priority
than getting the release out the door. The release team would be the
ones to ask.

I guess the two different ways of providing images might just be a
matter of taste. Personally, I like an image with lots of things to
try (3.8 was really nice in this regard). There are other opinions,
and that's just as fine.

I don't think either Squeak or Pharo do it the right way. :-)

Best,

Michael

Michael Haupt-3

Re: [Election] Candidate list with 11 candidates is final, 6 days until election starts!

In reply to this post by Miguel Cobá

Miguel,

Am 05.03.2010 um 20:01 schrieb Miguel Enrique Cobá Martinez <[hidden email]
m>:
> Ok, so if you give a truck and tell me, hey but look, you can
> disassemble it anytime you want and if you remove the parts you don't
> like you could get with a marvelous 2 seat coupé that is perfect for
> *your* problem (the one I am trying to solve using Squeak/Pharo) isn't
> really helping me.

you're fun. :-)

I believe the image you're using doesn't make sense. The truck would
be, whatever, VisualWorks.

To stay in the domain, I suggest to adapt the metaphor as follows.
Squeak is a car with many bells and whistles installed, and Pharo, the
plain chassis, even without the bodywork. How does your comparison
work now? ;-)

Best,

Michael

1234