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Facelifting the second

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Torsten Bergmann

Facelifting the second

>I'll try to fix anything people might find wrong/not configurable
>enough with it.

The buttons look nice, but two buttons disappear when you deselect
the window by selecting another

Bye
T.
--
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Tim Felgentreff

Re: Facelifting the second

Hi

The buttons also disappeared in my unpatched image. I just downloaded
a clean 4.1alpha image, this also happens in there.

Regards,
Tim

Quoting Torsten Bergmann <[hidden email]>:

>> I'll try to fix anything people might find wrong/not configurable
>> enough with it.
>
> The buttons look nice, but two buttons disappear when you deselect
> the window by selecting another
>
> Bye
> T.
> --
> Sicherer, schneller und einfacher. Die aktuellen Internet-Browser -
> jetzt kostenlos herunterladen! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/atbrowser
>
>

Tim Felgentreff

Re: Facelifting the second

Sorry, should have asked the question, do you think this should this
be configurable?

Regards,
Tim

Quoting [hidden email]:

> Hi
>
> The buttons also disappeared in my unpatched image. I just
> downloaded a clean 4.1alpha image, this also happens in there.
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
> Quoting Torsten Bergmann <[hidden email]>:
>
>>> I'll try to fix anything people might find wrong/not configurable
>>> enough with it.
>>
>> The buttons look nice, but two buttons disappear when you deselect
>> the window by selecting another
>>
>> Bye
>> T.
>> --
>> Sicherer, schneller und einfacher. Die aktuellen Internet-Browser -
>> jetzt kostenlos herunterladen! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/atbrowser
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Michael Davies-2

Re: Facelifting the second

In reply to this post by Tim Felgentreff

On 24 March 2010 17:48, <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi

The buttons also disappeared in my unpatched image. I just downloaded a clean 4.1alpha image, this also happens in there.

Regards,
Tim

That was a (very helpful imo) change made in the trunk to help distinguish between the active window and others, so not an artefact of your changes. An alternative approach could be to keep them visible but desaturate them for the non-front windows.

There's lots of really nice stuff in this changeset, and I really like it. Here's a few minor issues (as tested in the 4.1-9745-alpha.image that Andreas released the other day):
- the selected item in a list should have white text on a darkish blue background. At the moment, PluggableListMorph, PluggableTreeMorph, PluggableListMorphOfMany and MenuMorph all highlight the currently selected item differently, which is a regression to where we were a couple of months ago.
- If you pick up a menu, it has three(!) shadows while you're dragging it.
- The 'X' button on the menu hasn't been updated, so is still the old one.
- The menu title being grey makes it look like a non-active window - black text would make it consistent.

- the "pin" on the menu disappears when you move over it (actually that pin icon looks really un-polished in comparison to the other new icons, hint hint).
- the decision to "square off" the menu corners means that they look much more different from the Confirmation dialogs than they did previously - it would be better if they started looking more similar instead. Actually I'm not sure the menus look better with square corners when everything else is rounded, including the docking bar menus.
- I'm sure that it's me being dense, but I can't see how to find out how to activate eg Preferences>>installBrightWindowColors in the preferences browser
- the Pastel colours seem to be indistinguishable from grey - is that just me going blind?
- with these changes, the standard title font now looks really heavy - have you tried dropping it down to DejaVu Sans size 9?

Sorry if that all sounds negative - I think it's a very attractive set of changes, and I'd be very pleased to see it adopted for 4.1. Thanks for sharing it!

Michael

laza

Re: Facelifting the second

On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 21:17, Michael Davies <[hidden email]> wrote:

That was a (very helpful imo) change made in the trunk to help distinguish between the active window and others, so not an artefact of your changes. An alternative approach could be to keep them visible but desaturate them for the non-front windows.

Before the menu and the full expand/contract button were just locked/disabled for non active windows. Visually the buttons didn't change, so there was no way of telling if they were active or not. They just did behave differently than the close or collapse button. All in all I thought this was very confusing. For example clicking on the menu button of an inactive window just activated that window and you had to click again to actually get the window menu in contrast on clicking on the close button, which had an immediate effect on inactive windows.

Why it was chosen to deactivate the menu and full expand/contract buttons on inactive windows is beyond me and might be worth for reconsideration.

There's lots of really nice stuff in this changeset, and I really like it.

That's for sure! Nice and clean.

In addition what others already said just some minor things that crossed my mind (again about the window buttons :)

If we are going to change the grouping of the buttons I rather would prefer to have the menu button left from window title and then following to the right collapse, full expand, close. The menu button behaves differently then the other immediate action buttons and so might be better separated from them.

+ and - as iconic symbols imply an inverse operation (for me), but they don't behave like that. Maybe a small box and a large box would work better for full expand/contract, also because clicking on + to contract a window feels strange.

Even if there is some prominent operating system doing so, I'm not a big fan of traffic light colors for window buttons. It's just distracting and the color coding won't work for me. And i think the contrast of the yellow button is to low.

Maybe it is fair to say, that I usually use the gnome desktop and so surely my perception is affected by that. :)

Tim, these are just little subjective things and your contribution is a major step forward.

Alex

Bert Freudenberg

Re: Facelifting the second

On 25.03.2010, at 08:58, Alexander Lazarević wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 21:17, Michael Davies <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> That was a (very helpful imo) change made in the trunk to help distinguish between the active window and others, so not an artefact of your changes. An alternative approach could be to keep them visible but desaturate them for the non-front windows.
>
I'd like that.

>> There's lots of really nice stuff in this changeset, and I really like it.
>
> That's for sure! Nice and clean.

+1

> If we are going to change the grouping of the buttons I rather would prefer to have the menu button left from window title and then following to the right collapse, full expand, close. The menu button behaves differently then the other immediate action buttons and so might be better separated from them.

Hehe. The only way to satisfaction here is a preference I'm afraid ;)

> Even if there is some prominent operating system doing so, I'm not a big fan of traffic light colors for window buttons. It's just distracting and the color coding won't work for me. And i think the contrast of the yellow button is to low.

In that prominent OS, only the active window has colored window buttons. Inactive windows have gray buttons that light up on mouse-over.

- Bert -

Michael Haupt-3

Re: Facelifting the second

Hi,

see attachment - I believe more of the label should be visible when
the minimised window is passive - the grey area looks (literally) like
nothing.

SystemWindow >> #passivate does some things that look related. It
seems the bounding box (right terminology?) of the text representing
the label should be extended as the SystemWindowButton instances are
hidden. Now, I'm frightened to break some protocol by just doing that.

I'm rather nescient re Morphic and don't want to poke around hurting
innocent code that doesn't deserve it. Please, someone, give me a hint
as to where I could address this.

Best,

Michael

Squeak VM Schnappschuss001.png (9K) Download Attachment

Squeak VM Schnappschuss002.png (10K) Download Attachment

laza

Re: Facelifting the second

Michael (and all),

please see if the recent updates with dimmed window buttons works for you.

Alex

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 15:45, Michael Haupt <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

see attachment - I believe more of the label should be visible when
the minimised window is passive - the grey area looks (literally) like
nothing.

SystemWindow >> #passivate does some things that look related. It
seems the bounding box (right terminology?) of the text representing
the label should be extended as the SystemWindowButton instances are
hidden. Now, I'm frightened to break some protocol by just doing that.

I'm rather nescient re Morphic and don't want to poke around hurting
innocent code that doesn't deserve it. Please, someone, give me a hint
as to where I could address this.

Best,

Michael

Michael Haupt-3

Re: Facelifting the second

Alex,

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 4:03 PM, Alexander Lazarević <[hidden email]> wrote:
> please see if the recent updates with dimmed window buttons works for you.

yup. Thanks! *Sigh*, I had *so* wanted to do this myself to learn something. :-)

Best,

Michael

Alexander Lazarevic'

Re: Facelifting the second

Sorry, but I was in the process of publishing when I saw your message. :)

Alex

25.03.2010 16:18 schrieb am "Michael Haupt" <[hidden email]>:

Alex,

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 4:03 PM, Alexander Lazarević <[hidden email]> wrote:
> please see if th...
yup. Thanks! *Sigh*, I had *so* wanted to do this myself to learn something. :-)

Best,

Michael

Bert Freudenberg

Re: Facelifting the second

In reply to this post by Michael Haupt-3

On 25.03.2010, at 16:17, Michael Haupt wrote:
>
> Alex,
>
> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 4:03 PM, Alexander Lazarević <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> please see if the recent updates with dimmed window buttons works for you.
>
> yup. Thanks! *Sigh*, I had *so* wanted to do this myself to learn something. :-)

You could work on optimizing it - currently the dimmed image is recomputed whenever the window is passivated ...

- Bert -

Michael Haupt-3

Re: Facelifting the second

Hi Bert,

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
> You could work on optimizing it - currently the dimmed image is recomputed whenever the window is passivated ...

righto. :-)

Best,

Michael

laza

Re: Facelifting the second

Well yeah. But it is ok that the highlighted images are recomputed every time the mouse pointer touches them? :)

Alex

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 18:04, Michael Haupt <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Bert,

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
> You could work on optimizing it - currently the dimmed image is recomputed whenever the window is passivated ...

righto. :-)

Best,

Michael

Bert Freudenberg

Re: Facelifting the second

On 25.03.2010, at 18:49, Alexander Lazarević wrote:

Well yeah. But it is ok that the highlighted images are recomputed every time the mouse pointer touches them? :)

Alex

Nope. Surely Michael is fixing both ;)

- Bert -

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 18:04, Michael Haupt <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Bert,

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
> You could work on optimizing it - currently the dimmed image is recomputed whenever the window is passivated ...

righto. :-)

Best,

Michael

Michael Haupt-3

Re: Facelifting the second

Hi,

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 8:06 PM, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Well yeah. But it is ok that the highlighted images are recomputed every
>> time the mouse pointer touches them? :)
>
> Nope. Surely Michael is fixing both ;)

whoa. Anything else? Room service? ;-)

Best,

Michael

Casey Ransberger-2

Re: Facelifting the second

Wow! This looks really great. It would be nice if the iconified windows didn't have the buttons cutting off the window titles, though.

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:13 PM, Michael Haupt <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 8:06 PM, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Well yeah. But it is ok that the highlighted images are recomputed every
>> time the mouse pointer touches them? :)
>

> Nope. Surely Michael is fixing both ;)

whoa. Anything else? Room service? ;-)

Best,

Michael

Casey Ransberger-2

Re: Facelifting the second

In reply to this post by Michael Haupt-3

Erm, and: Is there an easy way to get my technicolor windows back? The gray theme is probably less horrifying to new users, but the bright windows make me kind of happy...

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:13 PM, Michael Haupt <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 8:06 PM, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Well yeah. But it is ok that the highlighted images are recomputed every
>> time the mouse pointer touches them? :)
>

> Nope. Surely Michael is fixing both ;)

whoa. Anything else? Room service? ;-)

Best,

Michael

Casey Ransberger-2

Re: Facelifting the second

Ah! NM! It's in the menu. Nice work!!

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:30 PM, Casey Ransberger <[hidden email]> wrote:

Erm, and: Is there an easy way to get my technicolor windows back? The gray theme is probably less horrifying to new users, but the bright windows make me kind of happy...

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:13 PM, Michael Haupt <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 8:06 PM, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Well yeah. But it is ok that the highlighted images are recomputed every
>> time the mouse pointer touches them? :)
>

> Nope. Surely Michael is fixing both ;)

whoa. Anything else? Room service? ;-)

Best,

Michael

radoslav hodnicak

Re: Facelifting the second

In reply to this post by Michael Haupt-3

Yes - I'd like to be able to resize windows by dragging any edge again,
not just with corner handles. Or at least have a resize handle in the
middle somewhere.

rado

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010, Michael Haupt wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 8:06 PM, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Well yeah. But it is ok that the highlighted images are recomputed every
>>> time the mouse pointer touches them? :)
>>
>> Nope. Surely Michael is fixing both ;)
>
> whoa. Anything else? Room service? ;-)
>
> Best,
>
> Michael
>

Stéphane Rollandin

Re: Facelifting the second

> Yes - I'd like to be able to resize windows by dragging any edge again,
> not just with corner handles. Or at least have a resize handle in the
> middle somewhere.

+1

Stef