File error on open and sound reverb problem again

Stephen,

I've tested the file you modified on

- Mac OS X 10.6.7 / Etoys 4.1.1
- Windows XP / Etoys 4.1.1
- Windows 7 / Etoys 4.1.1
- OLPC Sugar 11.3.0 / Etoys 113

The fix holds except that on Windows XP & 7, the reverb comes back
intermittently. That is fine for now.

I would like to find out how to "modify beep" myself (where to find
the beep code) at some point so I can apply your code change to
another file if needed.

I can now proceed with having the volunteers help us on Mac and PC
machines. I will also be able to load demo files on XO-1 and XO-1.5
laptops to do demos at the Zambian Embassy in Washington, D.C.

I will credit the posters here in future announcements.

Mike

On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:13 PM, Steve Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Mike,
>
> Attached is a project that I think may solve your problem.  I modified beep
> to add the line highlighted below.
> beep: anObject
> "Play given sound or at least beep."
> | sound |
>     SoundPlayer stopReverb.
> anObject isString
> ifTrue:
> [sound := SoundService default playSoundNamedOrBeep: anObject.
> (sound respondsTo: #stopGracefully)
> ifTrue: [self costume setProperty: #playingSound toValue: sound]]
> ifFalse:
> [SoundPlayer resumePlaying: anObject quickStart: true]
>
> Also  did some testing:
>
> 1) Open Etoys 4.1 build 2390 (Mac OSX 10.6.8)
> 2) Open Preferences window
> 3) Check soundReverb (NOT set, like that 1985 code ;))
> 4) Open Mike's project
> 5) Check soundReverb Preference in Preference WIndow (NOT Set)
> 6) Click TestSound Play Button (while Preference Window Open)
> 7) Step 6 causes soundReverb Preference to be set
> One way to get rid of the Reverb is to execute SoundPlayer stopReverb
> The problem is how to do it when project starts/opens.
> 1) Tried World script set to run on "opening" (Does NOT work, doesn't
> execute when project opens)
> 2) Tried Book Script set to run on "opening" (Does NOT work, doesn't execute
> when project opens)
> 3) Tried Page 1 Script set to run on "opening" (Does NOT work, doesn't
> execute when project opens)
> 4) Tried Page 2 Script set to run on "opening" (Does work, doesn't execute
> when project opens)
>
> Stephen
> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Mike Lee <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Bert,
>>
>> The reverb stayed as it was because I didn't understand that
>> commenting out the initialization was going to just preserve the
>> reverb toggle state. The reverb disable button on the Score Player was
>> clicked the whole time. I toggled the button again, the reverb went
>> away. Upon doing a save as and reopening, the reverb was still there.
>>
>> I captured the sequence through the System Browser in More detail:
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/curiouslee/6338769418/sizes/o/in/photostream/
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 6:03 PM, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > Looks fine so far. The "line disappearing" after commenting it out is
>> > fine, it just means the actual source could not be written since that's
>> > read-only just like the image on your system.
>> >
>> > When you load that project now, and play a sound, the reverb should stay
>> > as it was. Doesn't that work? Did you disable the reverb?
>> >
>> > - Bert -
>> >
>> > On 12.11.2011, at 19:02, Mike Lee <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I stepped through again following your steps exactly. Pressing cmd-s
>> >> on my Macbook Pro running 10.6.7 and Etoys 4.1.1. inexplicably caused
>> >> the quoted string to disappear. I went ahead and saved the Etoys
>> >> project file, see screenshots:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/curiouslee/6337954306/sizes/o/in/photostream/
>> >>
>> >> Upon returning to the SoundPlayer class in the code browser, the
>> >> original code is gone and replaced with different text.
>> >>
>> >> The reverb persists.
>> >>
>> >> To recap, others are telling me there may be a fix in 4.1.2 or 4.2,
>> >> but for now it seems like I need to find a resolution to the reverb
>> >> manually as I will be distributing 4.1.1 and 700 project files to 20
>> >> volunteers next Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> This sound reverb issue is undoubtedly some legacy decision that now
>> >> must be persisted as a default because so many files expect the effect
>> >> to be present. But, like so many aspects of the grandfather clock that
>> >> Etoys is, it makes no sense. Imagine if a photo editing program tinted
>> >> your images pink by default because some developer years ago thought
>> >> that was cool. No other piece of authoring software I've encountered
>> >> since I started using graphical computers in 1985 puts a filter effect
>> >> on a media asset by default.
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 6:19 AM, Bert Freudenberg
>> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>> On 12.11.2011, at 11:15, Mike Lee wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> After some hours of reading and clicking around, I finally got to the
>> >>>> SoundPlayer initialize string in the class method.
>> >>>
>> >>> "diving into the byzantine bowels of Squeak Etoys and Smalltalk" -
>> >>> very courageous ;)
>> >>>
>> >>> A better way to open a Squeak Browser in Etoys is via the XO's "view
>> >>> source" key. No need to fiddle with preferences. On a Mac that's cmd-comma
>> >>> and on PC ctrl-comma.
>> >>>
>> >>>> I added the quotes closed everything up
>> >>>
>> >>> You need to press cmd-s / ctrl-s to "accept" the method (possibly you
>> >>> did but didn't mention it). It will ask for your initials (every change is
>> >>> logged with a time stamp and author).
>> >>>
>> >>>> and was not able to save the Etoys file due to an error writing the
>> >>>> image file.
>> >>>
>> >>> You normally don't want to save the image file. On many systems you
>> >>> can't (as you discovered) because this modifies the Etoys application
>> >>> itself. That menu entry is in the developer's world menu (accessible by
>> >>> toggling the "etoy-friendly" preference you found). The view-source menu
>> >>> leaves these out, which is why we recommend using that.
>> >>>
>> >>>> Perhaps this is what you mean by
>> >>>> "attaching [the change] to the project," which I haven't a clue how
>> >>>> to
>> >>>> do.
>> >>>
>> >>> You don't need to do anything special, as long as you edited the
>> >>> method while in the project that needs the change. Any method you accept in
>> >>> a project is added to that project's changeset automatically. You just need
>> >>> to save the project afterwards (and it will ask you if you want to include
>> >>> the changes).
>> >>>
>> >>>> See my screenshots:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/curiouslee/6337002318/sizes/o/in/photostream/
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Mike
>> >>>
>> >>> Very nice, I could see exactly what you were doing (except I could not
>> >>> guess which OS you were on).
>> >>>
>> >>> - Bert
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 6:32 PM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>> I'm not sure what Halo changes Steve suggest...
>> >>>>> Fix is quite easy if you know your way around the Etoys system.
>> >>>>> Just comment out the SoundPlayer initialize in the class method, see
>> >>>>> below.
>> >>>>> A change set with this fix can be attached to the project.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Karl
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> SoundPlayer class>>startUpWithSound:
>> >>>>>  startUpWithSound: aSound
>> >>>>>       "Start up the player process."
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> +       "SoundPlayer initialize."
>> >>>>> -       SoundPlayer initialize.
>> >>>>>       SoundPlayer
>> >>>>>               startPlayerProcessBufferSize: (BufferMSecs *
>> >>>>> SamplingRate) // 1000
>> >>>>>               rate: SamplingRate
>> >>>>>               stereo: Stereo
>> >>>>>               sound: aSound.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 8:25 AM, Mike Lee <[hidden email]>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>> Karl,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Good to hear of the fix. If reverb is turned off in 4.2, or if I
>> >>>>>> change it in the world Halo as Steve suggests, should we expert
>> >>>>>> that
>> >>>>>> the setting will be honored on prior versions--even if the file is
>> >>>>>> changed and resaved?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Mike
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 2:20 AM, karl ramberg
>> >>>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>>>> I fixed an issue with reverb i that is included in Etoys 4.2.
>> >>>>>>> SoundPlayer initializes everytime it is started and the reverb is
>> >>>>>>> set
>> >>>>>>> to true every time.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Karl
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 5:51 AM, Mike Lee <[hidden email]>
>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> Hi,
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> The Lubuto Library Project to develop 700 Etoys lessons in Zambia
>> >>>>>>>> is
>> >>>>>>>> finally nearing completion after a year of work by teachers and
>> >>>>>>>> students in Lusaka. There are 100 lessons in 7 Zambian languages
>> >>>>>>>> plus
>> >>>>>>>> 700 sound files that have to be associated with a button in the
>> >>>>>>>> files.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Now we have have enlisted a group of Washington, D.C.-area
>> >>>>>>>> volunteers
>> >>>>>>>> from the Special Libraries Association to help with a final
>> >>>>>>>> finishing
>> >>>>>>>> pass at the files.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Though all the files were authored on OLPC XO laptops in Sugar
>> >>>>>>>> using
>> >>>>>>>> Etoys 3.x, we wish to do the final production on Etoys 4.1 on Mac
>> >>>>>>>> and
>> >>>>>>>> PC depending on what the volunteer has. The finished files need
>> >>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>> open and function properly on Etoys 3.x and 4.x on all platforms.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I have some initial questions regarding some problems working
>> >>>>>>>> with the
>> >>>>>>>> files across different versions of  Etoys.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> 1) When I double-click to open the files from Zambia on Etoys 4.1
>> >>>>>>>> Mac,
>> >>>>>>>> I get an error message that prevents the file from loading and
>> >>>>>>>> makes
>> >>>>>>>> it impossible to close Etoys without a force quit. I have seen
>> >>>>>>>> this
>> >>>>>>>> error before when I open older project files on new builds of
>> >>>>>>>> Etoys on
>> >>>>>>>> the XO. On Eotys 4.1 Mac, I can open the file from with Etoys.
>> >>>>>>>> Here is
>> >>>>>>>> a screen shot:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/curiouslee/6265581802/in/photostream
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> And here is a sample file on Dropbox:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16590498/Citonga%201%20Afabeti%201.003.pr
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> 2) The sound reverb problem persists. Opening up the Etoys 4.1
>> >>>>>>>> Score
>> >>>>>>>> Player in the files authored in Etoys 3.x and clicking the
>> >>>>>>>> Disable
>> >>>>>>>> Reverb button doesn't work.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Thanks in advance to whomever can provide some guidance.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Mike
>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>> squeakland mailing list
>> >>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>> >>>>>>>> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> squeakland mailing list
>> >>>> [hidden email]
>> >>>> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> squeakland mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
>
>

Stephen,

I've tested the file you modified on

- Mac OS X 10.6.7 / Etoys 4.1.1
- Windows XP / Etoys 4.1.1
- Windows 7 / Etoys 4.1.1
- OLPC Sugar 11.3.0 / Etoys 113

The fix holds except that on Windows XP & 7, the reverb comes back
intermittently. That is fine for now.

I would like to find out how to "modify beep" myself (where to find
the beep code) at some point so I can apply your code change to
another file if needed.

I can now proceed with having the volunteers help us on Mac and PC
machines. I will also be able to load demo files on XO-1 and XO-1.5
laptops to do demos at the Zambian Embassy in Washington, D.C.

I will credit the posters here in future announcements.

Mike

On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:13 PM, Steve Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Mike,
>
> Attached is a project that I think may solve your problem.  I modified beep
> to add the line highlighted below.
> beep: anObject
> "Play given sound or at least beep."
> | sound |
>     SoundPlayer stopReverb.
> anObject isString
> ifTrue:
> [sound := SoundService default playSoundNamedOrBeep: anObject.
> (sound respondsTo: #stopGracefully)
> ifTrue: [self costume setProperty: #playingSound toValue: sound]]
> ifFalse:
> [SoundPlayer resumePlaying: anObject quickStart: true]
>
> Also  did some testing:
>
> 1) Open Etoys 4.1 build 2390 (Mac OSX 10.6.8)
> 2) Open Preferences window
> 3) Check soundReverb (NOT set, like that 1985 code ;))
> 4) Open Mike's project
> 5) Check soundReverb Preference in Preference WIndow (NOT Set)
> 6) Click TestSound Play Button (while Preference Window Open)
> 7) Step 6 causes soundReverb Preference to be set
> One way to get rid of the Reverb is to execute SoundPlayer stopReverb
> The problem is how to do it when project starts/opens.
> 1) Tried World script set to run on "opening" (Does NOT work, doesn't
> execute when project opens)
> 2) Tried Book Script set to run on "opening" (Does NOT work, doesn't execute
> when project opens)
> 3) Tried Page 1 Script set to run on "opening" (Does NOT work, doesn't
> execute when project opens)
> 4) Tried Page 2 Script set to run on "opening" (Does work, doesn't execute
> when project opens)
>
> Stephen
> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Mike Lee <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Bert,
>>
>> The reverb stayed as it was because I didn't understand that
>> commenting out the initialization was going to just preserve the
>> reverb toggle state. The reverb disable button on the Score Player was
>> clicked the whole time. I toggled the button again, the reverb went
>> away. Upon doing a save as and reopening, the reverb was still there.
>>
>> I captured the sequence through the System Browser in More detail:
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/curiouslee/6338769418/sizes/o/in/photostream/
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 6:03 PM, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > Looks fine so far. The "line disappearing" after commenting it out is
>> > fine, it just means the actual source could not be written since that's
>> > read-only just like the image on your system.
>> >
>> > When you load that project now, and play a sound, the reverb should stay
>> > as it was. Doesn't that work? Did you disable the reverb?
>> >
>> > - Bert -
>> >
>> > On 12.11.2011, at 19:02, Mike Lee <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I stepped through again following your steps exactly. Pressing cmd-s
>> >> on my Macbook Pro running 10.6.7 and Etoys 4.1.1. inexplicably caused
>> >> the quoted string to disappear. I went ahead and saved the Etoys
>> >> project file, see screenshots:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/curiouslee/6337954306/sizes/o/in/photostream/
>> >>
>> >> Upon returning to the SoundPlayer class in the code browser, the
>> >> original code is gone and replaced with different text.
>> >>
>> >> The reverb persists.
>> >>
>> >> To recap, others are telling me there may be a fix in 4.1.2 or 4.2,
>> >> but for now it seems like I need to find a resolution to the reverb
>> >> manually as I will be distributing 4.1.1 and 700 project files to 20
>> >> volunteers next Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> This sound reverb issue is undoubtedly some legacy decision that now
>> >> must be persisted as a default because so many files expect the effect
>> >> to be present. But, like so many aspects of the grandfather clock that
>> >> Etoys is, it makes no sense. Imagine if a photo editing program tinted
>> >> your images pink by default because some developer years ago thought
>> >> that was cool. No other piece of authoring software I've encountered
>> >> since I started using graphical computers in 1985 puts a filter effect
>> >> on a media asset by default.
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 6:19 AM, Bert Freudenberg
>> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>> On 12.11.2011, at 11:15, Mike Lee wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> After some hours of reading and clicking around, I finally got to the
>> >>>> SoundPlayer initialize string in the class method.
>> >>>
>> >>> "diving into the byzantine bowels of Squeak Etoys and Smalltalk" -
>> >>> very courageous ;)
>> >>>
>> >>> A better way to open a Squeak Browser in Etoys is via the XO's "view
>> >>> source" key. No need to fiddle with preferences. On a Mac that's cmd-comma
>> >>> and on PC ctrl-comma.
>> >>>
>> >>>> I added the quotes closed everything up
>> >>>
>> >>> You need to press cmd-s / ctrl-s to "accept" the method (possibly you
>> >>> did but didn't mention it). It will ask for your initials (every change is
>> >>> logged with a time stamp and author).
>> >>>
>> >>>> and was not able to save the Etoys file due to an error writing the
>> >>>> image file.
>> >>>
>> >>> You normally don't want to save the image file. On many systems you
>> >>> can't (as you discovered) because this modifies the Etoys application
>> >>> itself. That menu entry is in the developer's world menu (accessible by
>> >>> toggling the "etoy-friendly" preference you found). The view-source menu
>> >>> leaves these out, which is why we recommend using that.
>> >>>
>> >>>> Perhaps this is what you mean by
>> >>>> "attaching [the change] to the project," which I haven't a clue how
>> >>>> to
>> >>>> do.
>> >>>
>> >>> You don't need to do anything special, as long as you edited the
>> >>> method while in the project that needs the change. Any method you accept in
>> >>> a project is added to that project's changeset automatically. You just need
>> >>> to save the project afterwards (and it will ask you if you want to include
>> >>> the changes).
>> >>>
>> >>>> See my screenshots:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/curiouslee/6337002318/sizes/o/in/photostream/
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Mike
>> >>>
>> >>> Very nice, I could see exactly what you were doing (except I could not
>> >>> guess which OS you were on).
>> >>>
>> >>> - Bert
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 6:32 PM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>> I'm not sure what Halo changes Steve suggest...
>> >>>>> Fix is quite easy if you know your way around the Etoys system.
>> >>>>> Just comment out the SoundPlayer initialize in the class method, see
>> >>>>> below.
>> >>>>> A change set with this fix can be attached to the project.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Karl
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> SoundPlayer class>>startUpWithSound:
>> >>>>>  startUpWithSound: aSound
>> >>>>>       "Start up the player process."
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> +       "SoundPlayer initialize."
>> >>>>> -       SoundPlayer initialize.
>> >>>>>       SoundPlayer
>> >>>>>               startPlayerProcessBufferSize: (BufferMSecs *
>> >>>>> SamplingRate) // 1000
>> >>>>>               rate: SamplingRate
>> >>>>>               stereo: Stereo
>> >>>>>               sound: aSound.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 8:25 AM, Mike Lee <[hidden email]>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>> Karl,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Good to hear of the fix. If reverb is turned off in 4.2, or if I
>> >>>>>> change it in the world Halo as Steve suggests, should we expert
>> >>>>>> that
>> >>>>>> the setting will be honored on prior versions--even if the file is
>> >>>>>> changed and resaved?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Mike
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 2:20 AM, karl ramberg
>> >>>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>>>> I fixed an issue with reverb i that is included in Etoys 4.2.
>> >>>>>>> SoundPlayer initializes everytime it is started and the reverb is
>> >>>>>>> set
>> >>>>>>> to true every time.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Karl
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 5:51 AM, Mike Lee <[hidden email]>
>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> Hi,
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> The Lubuto Library Project to develop 700 Etoys lessons in Zambia
>> >>>>>>>> is
>> >>>>>>>> finally nearing completion after a year of work by teachers and
>> >>>>>>>> students in Lusaka. There are 100 lessons in 7 Zambian languages
>> >>>>>>>> plus
>> >>>>>>>> 700 sound files that have to be associated with a button in the
>> >>>>>>>> files.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Now we have have enlisted a group of Washington, D.C.-area
>> >>>>>>>> volunteers
>> >>>>>>>> from the Special Libraries Association to help with a final
>> >>>>>>>> finishing
>> >>>>>>>> pass at the files.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Though all the files were authored on OLPC XO laptops in Sugar
>> >>>>>>>> using
>> >>>>>>>> Etoys 3.x, we wish to do the final production on Etoys 4.1 on Mac
>> >>>>>>>> and
>> >>>>>>>> PC depending on what the volunteer has. The finished files need
>> >>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>> open and function properly on Etoys 3.x and 4.x on all platforms.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I have some initial questions regarding some problems working
>> >>>>>>>> with the
>> >>>>>>>> files across different versions of  Etoys.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> 1) When I double-click to open the files from Zambia on Etoys 4.1
>> >>>>>>>> Mac,
>> >>>>>>>> I get an error message that prevents the file from loading and
>> >>>>>>>> makes
>> >>>>>>>> it impossible to close Etoys without a force quit. I have seen
>> >>>>>>>> this
>> >>>>>>>> error before when I open older project files on new builds of
>> >>>>>>>> Etoys on
>> >>>>>>>> the XO. On Eotys 4.1 Mac, I can open the file from with Etoys.
>> >>>>>>>> Here is
>> >>>>>>>> a screen shot:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/curiouslee/6265581802/in/photostream
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> And here is a sample file on Dropbox:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16590498/Citonga%201%20Afabeti%201.003.pr
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> 2) The sound reverb problem persists. Opening up the Etoys 4.1
>> >>>>>>>> Score
>> >>>>>>>> Player in the files authored in Etoys 3.x and clicking the
>> >>>>>>>> Disable
>> >>>>>>>> Reverb button doesn't work.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Thanks in advance to whomever can provide some guidance.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Mike
>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>> squeakland mailing list
>> >>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>> >>>>>>>> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> squeakland mailing list
>> >>>> [hidden email]
>> >>>> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> squeakland mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
>
>