Getting rid of coloured code

On 2013-02-26, at 16:48, "H. Hirzel" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On the other side I'd like to see something like that in
> Squeak/Cuis/Pharo as well.


Smalltalk: Live-coding for 40 years.

- Bert -

I'm pretty sure Ted and/or Dan (maybe?) did a Hypercard-alike in Squeak a long time ago. It really can't be a terribly hard thing for someone motivated to do in Morphic these days. We have a variety of useful capabilities to interface with OS facilities and can drop files on windows etc. We can even do multiple host windows now. On Mac and I think Windows we can do host menus.

If you like HyperCard, get on and make it. I bet it would even be possible to read in a lot of original stacks.

tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Strange OpCodes: KFP: Kindle Fire in Printer

I've thought about it. Supporting existing stacks would be nice, but I'm honestly more interested in this:

Thank you Casey for citing a (the?) current reference with the
analysis how a HyperCard type of application should be constructed.
The question now is: Does this need to be built or is the code
available somewhere?

-- Hannes


http://www.vpri.org/pdf/m2011001_dbjr_spec.pdf

DynaBook Junior Specification
by Ted Kaehler
14 Jan 2009. (Minor corrections 13 Dec 2010)
A specification for DynaBook Junior
shown in itself.
DBJr is a desktop publishing framework and
application builder that is modeled after Apple's HyperCard.

Abstract
DynaBook Junior is a desktop publishing
framework and application builder that is
modeled after Apple's HyperCard(tm). The
purpose of this specification is as a starting
point for the discovery of an extremely simple
way to describe and automatically generate
DynaBook Junior. The specification describes
stacks, pages, backgrounds, objects
embedded in pages, the front-to-back ordering
of objects, and page-specific objects. This
document is itself a DBJr stack that shows
examples of the features it describes.
Algorithms for showing a new page, adding
pages, adding backgrounds, and adding
objects to a page are given in pseudocode.

On 2/27/13, Casey Ransberger <[hidden email]> wrote:

While the DynaBookJr (I always misread "DBJr" as "DataBase Jr") is
indeed a good modern replacement for HyperCard, isn't the normal
BookMorph already available in Squeak a reasonable approximation?

-- Jecel

Ted Kaehler has done two implementations of DBJr AFAIK, one in Squeak and one in Javascript.

On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 04:31:36PM -0800, Casey Ransberger wrote:
Casey,

Try an interpreter VM from squeakvm.org. It will run Cog images as well
as older Squeak image formats back to at least Squeak 3.6. It runs the
image attp://tinlizzie.org/lesserphic2/ without any problem.

Dave

Thank you Casey and Dave for the references to get a working DynaBook
Junior image.

It works fine.

A thing which might not be obvious it to download the example stack
http://tinlizzie.org/lesserphic2/aboutDBJr%205-Aug.morph
in addition, locate it with the file browser and then choose 'load as morph'

--Hannes

On 2/28/13, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 02:04:13AM +0000, H. Hirzel wrote:
> Thank you Casey and Dave for the references to get a working DynaBook
> Junior image.
>
> It works fine.
>
> A thing which might not be obvious it to download the example stack
> http://tinlizzie.org/lesserphic2/aboutDBJr%205-Aug.morph
> in addition, locate it with the file browser and then choose 'load as morph'

Hannes,

Thanks! That was not obvious to me at all, thanks for the tip :)

Dave



>

It is not that we at Viewpoints are trying to be secretive, but we do
have a newer system (or systems).  Hopefully we can put some code out
when our report is done.

(Sorry for keeping people guessing.)

--
-- Yoshiki

Sometimes there can be too many cooks in the kitchen. I think most people probably do understand this.

I'm very glad to read the papers and follow whatever artifacts that make it out of the lab. You folks may try something that doesn't turn out to be the right approach for Frank, but might be otherwise good and really useful for other folks with different goals. This is why I'm so grateful for the VPRI bits that *do* hit the net.

So: just keep blazing trails and don't stop! We'll hear about it when we hear about it:)

Casey

On Feb 27, 2013, at 8:09 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It is not that we at Viewpoints are trying to be secretive, but we do
> have a newer system (or systems).  Hopefully we can put some code out
> when our report is done.
>
> (Sorry for keeping people guessing.)
>
> --
> -- Yoshiki
>

On 2/28/13 2:09 AM, "Yoshiki Ohshima" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It is not that we at Viewpoints are trying to be secretive, but we do
> have a newer system (or systems).  Hopefully we can put some code out
> when our report is done.
>
> (Sorry for keeping people guessing.)
>
> --
> -- Yoshiki


The files at http://tinlizzie.org/dbjr/ could be used ?
If I guess how to have DBJr (kind of) into the coming FunSqueakRos4dot4 (in
development) is legal ?

First step is load aboutDBJr 5-Aug.morph into the system ...

Edgar

P.S. Thanks to all who participate in this thread, the info was very useful

Ted Kaehler has done two implementations of DBJr AFAIK, one in Squeak and one in Javascript.

Here's the javascript version (for Lively Kernel)

http://forum.world.st/Try-DBJr-HyperCard-like-stacks-in-Lively-Kernel-td4599466.html

I had to dig to find the Moshi image, but here's an actual Squeak image -- and I think this was the right image -- note that this was a prototype and that some things (e.g. saving) aren't implemented. Also, I can't get it to open anymore, but I think that might be because I don't have a non-Cog VM now? Not sure which .sources file you want but I'm betting it's V3. The file of interest is "Text Field for LObject.zip"

http://tinlizzie.org/lesserphic2/

I was really fascinated with both the approach and the presentation he did here. Active essays are cool.

Meantime I have to figure out why I can't open the image. I thought Cog could open older images, but interpreters can't open Cog images. Hmmm.

On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:12 AM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

Etoys image also have a stack morph

Karl

On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:24 AM, Jecel Assumpcao Jr. <[hidden email]> wrote:

While the DynaBookJr (I always misread "DBJr" as "DataBase Jr") is
indeed a good modern replacement for HyperCard, isn't the normal
BookMorph already available in Squeak a reasonable approximation?

-- Jecel

--
Casey Ransberger

On 2/28/13 10:39 AM, "Eliot Miranda" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> Meantime I have to figure out why I can't open the image. I thought Cog could
>> open older images, but interpreters can't open Cog images. Hmmm.
>>
 Squeak 4.2.5beta1U opens it fine in Mac 10.6.8

Edgar

On Feb 27, 2013, at 4:31 PM, Casey Ransberger <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ted Kaehler has done two implementations of DBJr AFAIK, one in Squeak and one in Javascript.

Here's the javascript version (for Lively Kernel)

http://forum.world.st/Try-DBJr-HyperCard-like-stacks-in-Lively-Kernel-td4599466.html

I had to dig to find the Moshi image, but here's an actual Squeak image -- and I think this was the right image -- note that this was a prototype and that some things (e.g. saving) aren't implemented. Also, I can't get it to open anymore, but I think that might be because I don't have a non-Cog VM now? Not sure which .sources file you want but I'm betting it's V3. The file of interest is "Text Field for LObject.zip"

http://tinlizzie.org/lesserphic2/

I was really fascinated with both the approach and the presentation he did here. Active essays are cool.

Meantime I have to figure out why I can't open the image. I thought Cog could open older images, but interpreters can't open Cog images. Hmmm.

Depends on how old.  Cog (& StackVM) can only run closure images.
Eliot (phone)

I am having too much fun with that image and Morph - thanks Casey and
Hannes (and Ted of course)

> I bet that's exactly it; I think the image is based on an early 3x which is
> well before you introduced closure semantics to the existing
> not-quite-closure blocks.

It is based on a 2007 OLPC image. If I am not mistaken, that is the
image that became Etoys 3.0

I think it isn't quite the Moshi image that the demo card stack was
intended for, but it mostly works well in an interpreter VM.

Ideally the image would have a parts bin containing back and forward
buttons, but I was able to copy ThreePhaseButtonMorphs from another
substack to make my own stack.

I love the script browser, and the reusable message list browser
(which reminds me of Amber and Newspeak browsers). (Are there any
reusable browsers in Squeak 4.4 ?) I also love the cmd-f cmd-g search
through the text in the stack.

There is too much meta programming behind it for me to quickly grok. I
couldn't see how the page turning buttons worked, as it seemed to that
the #previousPage:mouseUp: method was the card's event handling script
for the page turning button, but it didn't contain any code, just a
comment, yet the button worked. I know that in Smalltalk "everything
happens somewhere else" but this time I couldn't find the 'somewhere
else'. Could someone explain it for me?

I think this could be the basis of a nicer way to have a high ceiling
scripting environment than the 'show as script' button in Etoys, but I
wait to see what else VPRI has up its collective sleeve :)

Have fun! David

On 28 February 2013 17:55, David Corking <[hidden email]> wrote:
What does "reusable" mean here? If you mean that navigating to
something doesn't spawn a whole new window, then we _sometimes_ have
reusable browsers. For instance, in a Browser, selecting a class name
and pressing <alt>-<shift>-b will, within the same Browser, jump to
the new class. There are some ways of doing something similar with
MessageLists, but I forget how to trigger the behaviour. I _think_
it's when you view the senders of some message in the currently viewed
method, you get the senders spliced into the viewed list, indented a
bit.

frank