Google Summer of Code 2009

Hi:

Giovanni Corriga, the GSOC 2007 and 2008 administrator, has asked me to be the administrator for GSOC 2009. My experience with the The Squeak Project GSOC 2008 was excellent and I believe the open source smalltalk community has benefited a lot from his efforts. Thanks Giovanni. Thanks to those who helped him too.

I will be using much of what he has set up. So this is the start of my work:
1) How do I get a username and password to edit the wiki
http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak
2) GSOC also needs a backup administrator. Please let me know.
3) What is the best way to get the word out and "meet" centrally?

More later.

All the best,
Aik-Siong Koh

Hi

I thought that ken and klaus were doing that already.
May be giovanni was not aware of that. May be you should sync with them.
Thanks for your help. Klaus and ken asked esug to get an esug  
representative
so I accepted.

Stef

On Feb 19, 2009, at 9:09 PM, askoh wrote:

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 12:09:35PM -0800, askoh wrote:
username: squeak
password: viewpoints

> 2) GSOC also needs a backup administrator. Please let me know.
> 3) What is the best way to get the word out and "meet" centrally?

I revived the invite-only #squeak-gsoc channel on freenode, and
made you a full op. To join, do:

register with nickserv if not already
/msg chanserv invite #squeak-gsoc
/join #squeak-gsoc

We used that channel for meetings last year. If you want to use
it, it is there.

--
Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/

I'm afraid Stef misunderstood.  I never volunteered to be the
administrator, I never asked that ESUG take a leading role, in fact I
questioned this.  At one point I supported Klaus volunteering to be the
administrator and said I would be willing to be his backup.  He declined
and that was the end of the discussion.  Like many of us, I just don't
have the time this year.

Ken

On Thu, 2009-02-19 at 22:34 +0100, stephane ducasse wrote:
> Hi
>
> I thought that ken and klaus were doing that already.
> May be giovanni was not aware of that. May be you should sync with them.
> Thanks for your help. Klaus and ken asked esug to get an esug  
> representative
> so I accepted.
>
> Stef

On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 21:09:35 +0100, Aik-Siong Koh wrote:
>
> Hi:
>
> Giovanni Corriga, the GSOC 2007 and 2008 administrator, has asked me to  
> be the administrator for GSOC 2009.

I assume you mean by that and by what you write below: you two decided you  
take over.

Why would the two of you do so in private, behind the back of the  
community? Also, we have a Leadership/board whose main purpose is to get  
involved in such cases. [OT*0.5] where is Leadership when it is needed?

> My experience with the The Squeak Project
> GSOC 2008 was excellent and I believe the open source smalltalk community
> has benefited a lot from his efforts.

Benefited, really? To the best of [available] knowledge, someone took  
Google's money from 2007 and 2008 and run away. Not _really_ a benefit for  
the community.

> Thanks Giovanni. Thanks to those who
> helped him too.
>
> I will be using much of what he has set up. So this is the start of my  
> work:
> 1) How do I get a username and password to edit the wiki
> http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak
> 2) GSOC also needs a backup administrator. Please let me know.

Stef made himself available for GSoC 2009 administration. Perhaps you be  
his backup this time?

Then, after all had run well with GSoC 2009, we'd have collected some  
feedback and can reconsider.

> 3) What is the best way to get the word out and "meet" centrally?
>
> More later.
>
> All the best,
> Aik-Siong Koh

--
"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it".  
Albert Einstein

Klaus D. Witzel wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 21:09:35 +0100, Aik-Siong Koh wrote:
>> My experience with the The Squeak Project
>> GSOC 2008 was excellent and I believe the open source smalltalk community
>> has benefited a lot from his efforts.
>
> Benefited, really? To the best of [available] knowledge, someone took
> Google's money from 2007 and 2008 and run away. Not _really_ a benefit
> for the community.

As far as I know the project Aik-Siong Koh was mentoring is the only one
that is currently shipping (in Cobalt). And it is most definitely of
great value to its community.

Your question may be worthwhile asking, but Aik-Siong Koh is probably
not the person to direct it to. You might want to ask the students who
took the money and didn't deliver. Or rather, their mentors. The list of
accepted projects and the associated mentors is probably still available
somewhere.

BTW, I find this line of questioning completely irrelevant for the
position we are talking about which is strictly administrative.
Aik-Siong Koh has been a mentor last year, involved in the entire
process and short of actually running the process that is as much
qualification as anyone can ask for.

Cheers,
   - Andreas

I found the project list again:

http://code.google.com/soc/2008/squeak/about.html

* Safarà: an Extensible Code Editor for Squeak
   by Luigi Panzeri, mentored by Lukas Renggli
* Squeak IRC bot framework
   by Francois Stephany, mentored by Kenneth Lee Causey
* Squeak GTK Support
   by Gwenaël Casaccio, mentored by Stéphane Ducasse
* freeCAD: 3D CAD with Motion Simulation Port to Croquet
   by Phua Khai Fong, mentored by Aik-Siong Koh
* OpenNARS port to Squeak using Seaside
   by Cédrick Béler, mentored by Klaus D. Witzel

Can I encourage every mentor to send a short status report on the
results of their project?

Cheers,
   - Andreas

Andreas Raab wrote:

On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 08:08:17 +0100, Andreas Raab wrote:

Nothing against Cobalt (which promises great value) but this your  
statement is about the future, which remains to be seen Mr. Politician ;)  
BTW I'm planning to use it for a great event in autumn this year.

> Your question may be worthwhile asking, but Aik-Siong Koh is probably  
> not the person to direct it to. You might want to ask the students who  
> took the money and didn't deliver.

Just for the records, a small piece for the uninformed: every mentor had  
his say whether or not any of the student delivered or not. AFAIK every  
student delivered.

> Or rather, their mentors. The list of accepted projects and the  
> associated mentors is probably still available somewhere.
>
> BTW, I find this line of questioning completely irrelevant for the  
> position we are talking about which is strictly administrative.

Not that I believe that, Andreas ;) but you're of course free to object  
to/any person you [dis-] like ;)

> Aik-Siong Koh has been a mentor last year, involved in the entire  
> process and short of actually running the process that is as much  
> qualification as anyone can ask for.

Sure, same for the other mentors.

> Cheers,
>    - Andreas
>

--
"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it".  
Albert Einstein

Klaus D. Witzel wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 08:08:17 +0100, Andreas Raab wrote:
>> Your question may be worthwhile asking, but Aik-Siong Koh is probably
>> not the person to direct it to. You might want to ask the students who
>> took the money and didn't deliver.
>
> Just for the records, a small piece for the uninformed: every mentor had
> his say whether or not any of the student delivered or not. AFAIK every
> student delivered.

Then I really don't understand what your criticism is aiming at. Your
comment read like disappointment about the results but in Aik-Siong
Koh's case I know that not only was the project delivered, it is
actually being shipped in the current Cobalt builds.

>> BTW, I find this line of questioning completely irrelevant for the
>> position we are talking about which is strictly administrative.
>
> Not that I believe that, Andreas ;) but you're of course free to object
> to/any person you [dis-] like ;)

I am not objecting to any person. I am supporting Aik-Siong Koh. If the
board decides to support someone else, fine. But I think Aik-Siong Koh
can fill the job and having more people involved in running the
community affairs might be a good thing.

>> Aik-Siong Koh has been a mentor last year, involved in the entire
>> process and short of actually running the process that is as much
>> qualification as anyone can ask for.
>
> Sure, same for the other mentors.

Certainly. If we have multiple contenders for the position the board
should choose. I have no problem with that. However ... none of this is
a reason to accuse people that they've been "taking the money and run".

Cheers,
   - Andreas

On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 08:32:58 +0100, Andreas Raab wrote:

> I found the project list again:
>
> http://code.google.com/soc/2008/squeak/about.html
>
...
> * OpenNARS port to Squeak using Seaside
>    by Cédrick Béler, mentored by Klaus D. Witzel
>
> Can I encourage every mentor to send a short status report on the  
> results of their project?

Sure, good idea. The result of the port (a Seaside app) is up'n running  
here:

- http://nars.seasidehosting.st

Final statetements and possible future directions posted here:

-  
http://groups.google.com/group/open-nars/browse_thread/thread/744a3f84028cb69e

Original site (input to the port) is here:

- http://code.google.com/p/open-nars/

BTW, will ask the NARS guys to update their hyperlink to the Squeak port.

> Cheers,
>    - Andreas
>
...
--
"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it".  
Albert Einstein

On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 09:18:23 +0100, Andreas Raab wrote:

Oh. it was about someone (the former admin) and the private/secret hand  
over.

> Your comment read like disappointment about the results but in Aik-Siong  
> Koh's case I know that not only was the project delivered, it is  
> actually being shipped in the current Cobalt builds.

I'm sorry, "results" was brought into the thread by you. I leave it there.

>>> BTW, I find this line of questioning completely irrelevant for the  
>>> position we are talking about which is strictly administrative.
>>  Not that I believe that, Andreas ;) but you're of course free to  
>> object to/any person you [dis-] like ;)
>
> I am not objecting to any person. I am supporting Aik-Siong Koh. If the  
> board decides to support someone else, fine. But I think Aik-Siong Koh  
> can fill the job and having more people involved in running the  
> community affairs might be a good thing.

Again, nothing against that from me.

>>> Aik-Siong Koh has been a mentor last year, involved in the entire  
>>> process and short of actually running the process that is as much  
>>> qualification as anyone can ask for.
>>  Sure, same for the other mentors.
>
> Certainly. If we have multiple contenders for the position the board  
> should choose.

Board, speak up!

> I have no problem with that. However ... none of this is a reason to  
> accuse people that they've been "taking the money and run".

This couldn't have be meant about Aik-Siong Koh, who (how come we know  
this all) was *not* in charge in 2007 and 2008.

But now that you write that I checked the emails sent by/exchanged with  
Ellen Ko <[hidden email]> two weeks ago, about the mess with payment and  
found that you wheren't cc'ed (but the other mentors where). It looks like  
none of you co-mentors where cc'ed.

> Cheers,
>    - Andreas
>

--
"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it".  
Albert Einstein

I have nothing particularly constructive to say, other than I find the whole NARS and OpenNARS project fascinating. It looks like a lot of thought has gone into the approach vs. other non-monotonic architectures. I'm curious how computationally tractable it will all be in practice, but I'll slink away now and read some of Pei Wang's papers...

Klaus D. Witzel wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 09:18:23 +0100, Andreas Raab wrote:
>>
>> Then I really don't understand what your criticism is aiming at.
>
> Oh. it was about someone (the former admin) and the private/secret hand
> over.

I see. I wouldn't call it a secret hand-over. I think it's fair for the
former admin to ping interested parties offline to avoid to be publicly
humiliated by people saying no when being asked. It may be a bit
premature by Aik-Siong Koh to assume that this all the legitimation
needed but I don't think there's any reason to assume a conspiracy here ;-)

>>>> Aik-Siong Koh has been a mentor last year, involved in the entire
>>>> process and short of actually running the process that is as much
>>>> qualification as anyone can ask for.
>>>  Sure, same for the other mentors.
>>
>> Certainly. If we have multiple contenders for the position the board
>> should choose.
>
> Board, speak up!

Indeed. But we have to help the board. Let's compile a list of
contenders: So far we have Aik-Siong Koh and Stefane Ducasse. Any others?

If not, I think it'd be worthwhile to have them run the project as a
team. And unless Stef is dying for being the front man I'd vote for
giving Aik-Siong Koh a chance since we'd spread the load and have a
backup plan if something goes wrong.

> But now that you write that I checked the emails sent by/exchanged with
> Ellen Ko <[hidden email]> two weeks ago, about the mess with payment and
> found that you wheren't cc'ed (but the other mentors where). It looks
> like none of you co-mentors where cc'ed.

I have not heard anything about it.

Cheers,
   - andreas

Andreas Raab <[hidden email]> writes:

> I found the project list again:
>
> http://code.google.com/soc/2008/squeak/about.html
>
> * Safarà: an Extensible Code Editor for Squeak
>   by Luigi Panzeri, mentored by Lukas Renggli
Hm, isn't this the status:
http://blog.summer.squeak.org/2008/10/safara-project-results-personal.html

Regards
Friedrich

On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 10:05:25 +0100, Ryan Mitchley wrote:

>
> I have nothing particularly constructive to say, other than I find the  
> whole
> NARS and OpenNARS project fascinating. It looks like a lot of thought has
> gone into the approach vs. other non-monotonic architectures.

:) I once was his critique (invisible between the great ones of course ;)  
reviewed his book, until I stepped back from the "negation and  
contradiction is necessary" doctrine.

Nowadays I perform semantic resolution on natural language sentences,  
impossible without Pei Wang's view on things.

> I'm curious
> how computationally tractable it will all be in practice,

Hehe ;)

> but I'll slink
> away now and read some of Pei Wang's papers...
>

--
"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it".  
Albert Einstein

On 20.02.2009, at 05:52, Klaus D. Witzel wrote:


Are you aware that Giovanni is, in fact, a board member? And we did  
talk about this, not sure why that point got left out of the meeting  
notes.

- Bert -

On 20.02.2009, at 10:05, Andreas Raab wrote:


As far as I am aware there are no others besides Aik-Siong Koh. Stef  
wrote "If ken and klaus are primary support I can help them. But they  
should keep my load light because I'm full of admin". But Ken wrote "I  
never volunteered", and I can't find a reference of Klaus offering  
support, so this seems to be a misunderstanding.

Klaus, are you volunteering too?

- Bert -

On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 10:57:56 +0100, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
As discussed with Ken earlier and as he posted here in squeak-dev already:  
No. Instead, I offer behind-the-scene help to+work for the new GSoC admin  
team.

/Klaus

> - Bert -

--
"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it".  
Albert Einstein

On 20.02.2009, at 11:07, Klaus D. Witzel wrote:


So all is well after all. Great :)

- Bert -

Bert Freudenberg wrote:
Thanks for resolving the issue.

Cheers,
   - Andreas