Improving Pharo By Example

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Re: Improving Pharo By Example

stepharo

On 1/6/14 20:54, kilon alios wrote:
Thanks Stef , I will try to take account all you mentioned from now on to anything I port. I used spaces because it makes it much easier for me to read. 

I have not added more screenshots because you told me you wanted less.
Yes :)
But one or two would be great.
Obviously less screenshots is less work for me. I have tried to add all the basic ones like system browser, inspector etc.

In any case I like to note here that my work need a lot of proof reading. I am fully aware there will be problems with my work and I don't read line by line everything I port because that would be extremely time consuming and would slow me down severely. But I do always make sure the pdf renders properly and the text looks readable.

Yes this is good.
I read fast side by side the two versions and fixed.

So please if you find any problems with the pdf/html , either fix it yourselves or if you dont have access to github / dont have the time to fix it , please report here and I will fix it for you.
I go faster to fix what I see. So I will continue like that.

Whats the verdict with the Squeksource section ? Do I covert it to a SmalltalkHub section or do I continue to chapter 4 ?

I would convert one small on STHUB.

"Thanks kilon. Thats an important effort.  I would vote for changing it to SmalltalkHub. The Squeaksource home page says its disabled creation of new projects.  "

well last time I checked the old Squeaksource was dead, there was something like Squeaksource3 that can be found here that allows the creation of new projects and I think its what squeakers use for their projects


but I have not used it since I left Squeak for Pharo a year ago.
STHub is the way to go waiting for git. So we should not spend too much energy on it.


I dont have an issues making a similar size section about Smalltalkhub , I agree its the most sensible solution but I would like to check it our first with Stef and the rest of the team because I know its extra work for people doing the translations and such. 


On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 9:13 PM, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:
I also fixed

    kjhjkhjh . -> lkjlkjklj.

    lkjkl , kkklj -> lkjkl, kkklj

there is no space because diacritics in english so

    Pharo ? -> Pharo?

And I suggest to add some screen shots in the tour on pharo.


I converted also extra bold into == == because code should be in == ==


I think that we should have a special tag for the "exercises" right now I put a bullet.
Stef



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Re: Improving Pharo By Example

Ben Coman
In reply to this post by kilon.alios
kilon alios wrote:
ok will do that and you can take it from there and edit it later on if you want to add additional info.

You might reuse what Steph wrote in section 4.3 "Saving a Milestone on SmalltalkHub"
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/PharoLaserGame/17/artifact/LaserGame.pdf



On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 10:09 PM, Damien Cassou <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 8:54 PM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Whats the verdict with the Squeksource section ? Do I covert it to a
> SmalltalkHub section or do I continue to chapter 4 ?


I think you can keep the section about squeaksource and replace it
with ss3 and smalltalkhub instead.

--
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without
losing enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill



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Re: Improving Pharo By Example

kilon.alios
Thanks Ben

I tried to install on my new fresh install of UBUNTU 14.04 64 bit and I get all sort of problems. 

First download.sh does not like the fact that I try to run it from my secondary internal drive and not the home folder. I get permission denied and when I try to turn it to executable , nothing happens, chmod +x executes fine but the file never turns into an executable. Linux is fun :D

So i clone it inside the home folder and now even though it is able to run download.sh it gives me an error

"Downloading the latest pharoVM:
pharo-vm/pharo
Downloading PharoV10.sources:
Downloading PharoV20.sources:
Downloading PharoV30.sources:
Creating starter scripts pharo and pharo-ui
Please install the 32bit libraries
   sudo aptitude install ia32-libs
Preparing Pillar image
./pharo: line 11: /home/exloupis/git/UpdatedPharoByExample/pharo-vm/pharo: No such file or directory
"

I would install the 32bit libs but I thought that those are not necessary for Ubuntu 14 . So how I proceed ?  


On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 5:14 AM, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote:
kilon alios wrote:
ok will do that and you can take it from there and edit it later on if you want to add additional info.

You might reuse what Steph wrote in section 4.3 "Saving a Milestone on SmalltalkHub"
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/PharoLaserGame/17/artifact/LaserGame.pdf




On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 10:09 PM, Damien Cassou <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 8:54 PM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Whats the verdict with the Squeksource section ? Do I covert it to a
> SmalltalkHub section or do I continue to chapter 4 ?


I think you can keep the section about squeaksource and replace it
with ss3 and smalltalkhub instead.

--
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without
losing enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill




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Re: Improving Pharo By Example

Ben Coman
kilon alios wrote:
Thanks Ben

I tried to install on my new fresh install of UBUNTU 14.04 64 bit and I get all sort of problems. 

First download.sh does not like the fact that I try to run it from my secondary internal drive and not the home folder. I get permission denied and when I try to turn it to executable , nothing happens, chmod +x executes fine but the file never turns into an executable. Linux is fun :D

So i clone it inside the home folder and now even though it is able to run download.sh it gives me an error

"Downloading the latest pharoVM:
pharo-vm/pharo
Downloading PharoV10.sources:
Downloading PharoV20.sources:
Downloading PharoV30.sources:
Creating starter scripts pharo and pharo-ui
Please install the 32bit libraries
   sudo aptitude install ia32-libs
Preparing Pillar image
./pharo: line 11: /home/exloupis/git/UpdatedPharoByExample/pharo-vm/pharo: No such file or directory
"

I would install the 32bit libs but I thought that those are not necessary for Ubuntu 14 . So how I proceed ? 

Sorry, I don't know anything on Pharo on Linux.  However my line 11 for file ./pharo is...
   "$DIR"/"pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Pharo" --headless "$@"
which presumably wouldn't work at all for you, so I presume the process somehow customises the file ./pharo per platform.

Generally speaking, have you tried running the download script verbosely?
    bash -x ./download.sh

Presuming you find that ./pharo is called from prepare_image() in download.sh, then also prepend those lines with "bash -x" for a better look at what its doing

cheers -ben



On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 5:14 AM, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote:
kilon alios wrote:
ok will do that and you can take it from there and edit it later on if you want to add additional info.

You might reuse what Steph wrote in section 4.3 "Saving a Milestone on SmalltalkHub"
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/PharoLaserGame/17/artifact/LaserGame.pdf




On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 10:09 PM, Damien Cassou <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 8:54 PM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Whats the verdict with the Squeksource section ? Do I covert it to a
> SmalltalkHub section or do I continue to chapter 4 ?


I think you can keep the section about squeaksource and replace it
with ss3 and smalltalkhub instead.

--
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without
losing enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill





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Re: Improving Pharo By Example

Damien Cassou
In reply to this post by kilon.alios
On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:00 PM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
> So how I proceed ?


the Ubuntu PPA is made for this:

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:pharo/stable
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install pharo-launcher

Can't be more simple than that



--
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without
losing enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill

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Re: Improving Pharo By Example

kilon.alios
thanks Damien that works.

However running ./update.sh afterwards creates this error 

"2014-06-13 18:07:52 (1,01 MB/s) - written to stdout [5311/5311]

Downloading the latest pharoVM:
mkdir: cannot create directory ‘pharo-vm’: File exists
"

is this normal ? 


On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 5:17 PM, Damien Cassou <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:00 PM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
> So how I proceed ?


the Ubuntu PPA is made for this:

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:pharo/stable
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install pharo-launcher

Can't be more simple than that



--
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without
losing enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill


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Re: Improving Pharo By Example

gcotelli
Clean the directory where you're running the script. If some of the files already exists the zero conf script won't work.


On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 12:14 PM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
thanks Damien that works.

However running ./update.sh afterwards creates this error 

"2014-06-13 18:07:52 (1,01 MB/s) - written to stdout [5311/5311]

Downloading the latest pharoVM:
mkdir: cannot create directory ‘pharo-vm’: File exists
"

is this normal ? 


On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 5:17 PM, Damien Cassou <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:00 PM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
> So how I proceed ?


the Ubuntu PPA is made for this:

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:pharo/stable
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install pharo-launcher

Can't be more simple than that



--
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without
losing enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill



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Re: Improving Pharo By Example

kilon.alios
what "clean the directory" mean ? And how I do that ? Do I need to delete the directory and reclone it ? 


On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 7:57 PM, Gabriel Cotelli <[hidden email]> wrote:
Clean the directory where you're running the script. If some of the files already exists the zero conf script won't work.


On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 12:14 PM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
thanks Damien that works.

However running ./update.sh afterwards creates this error 

"2014-06-13 18:07:52 (1,01 MB/s) - written to stdout [5311/5311]

Downloading the latest pharoVM:
mkdir: cannot create directory ‘pharo-vm’: File exists
"

is this normal ? 


On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 5:17 PM, Damien Cassou <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:00 PM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
> So how I proceed ?


the Ubuntu PPA is made for this:

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:pharo/stable
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install pharo-launcher

Can't be more simple than that



--
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without
losing enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill




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Re: Improving Pharo By Example

gcotelli
Yes.. I usually remove the previous content before using the zero conf script.. (I'm not using pillar but the basic script don't work if you already have the vm and tries to download it again, at least on my Linux box).

Hope it helps 


On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:25 PM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
what "clean the directory" mean ? And how I do that ? Do I need to delete the directory and reclone it ? 


On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 7:57 PM, Gabriel Cotelli <[hidden email]> wrote:
Clean the directory where you're running the script. If some of the files already exists the zero conf script won't work.


On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 12:14 PM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
thanks Damien that works.

However running ./update.sh afterwards creates this error 

"2014-06-13 18:07:52 (1,01 MB/s) - written to stdout [5311/5311]

Downloading the latest pharoVM:
mkdir: cannot create directory ‘pharo-vm’: File exists
"

is this normal ? 


On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 5:17 PM, Damien Cassou <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:00 PM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
> So how I proceed ?


the Ubuntu PPA is made for this:

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:pharo/stable
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install pharo-launcher

Can't be more simple than that



--
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without
losing enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill





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Re: Improving Pharo By Example

kilon.alios
Thanks Gabriel, yeah I thought so.

Houston we have a problem. 

I changed the SqueakSource chapter to SmalltalkHub but I have 2 problems

a) Even though I can generate the pdf for the First Application chapter. the pdf for the entire book does not generate , instead it errors complaining that it cannot find a png that I added which is where it should be and with the correct and appropriate filename. I dont see why it has a problem with this. 

b) The layout is really messed up , it puts the image inside a code I have included and it looks very messy in the pdf. 

No clue how to solve these problems . I committed with these problems so you can see for yourselves. 


On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 9:24 PM, Gabriel Cotelli <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes.. I usually remove the previous content before using the zero conf script.. (I'm not using pillar but the basic script don't work if you already have the vm and tries to download it again, at least on my Linux box).

Hope it helps 


On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:25 PM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
what "clean the directory" mean ? And how I do that ? Do I need to delete the directory and reclone it ? 


On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 7:57 PM, Gabriel Cotelli <[hidden email]> wrote:
Clean the directory where you're running the script. If some of the files already exists the zero conf script won't work.


On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 12:14 PM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
thanks Damien that works.

However running ./update.sh afterwards creates this error 

"2014-06-13 18:07:52 (1,01 MB/s) - written to stdout [5311/5311]

Downloading the latest pharoVM:
mkdir: cannot create directory ‘pharo-vm’: File exists
"

is this normal ? 


On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 5:17 PM, Damien Cassou <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:00 PM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
> So how I proceed ?


the Ubuntu PPA is made for this:

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:pharo/stable
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install pharo-launcher

Can't be more simple than that



--
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without
losing enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill






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Re: Improving Pharo By Example

Damien Cassou
On Sat, Jun 14, 2014 at 9:49 PM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
> a) Even though I can generate the pdf for the First Application chapter. the
> pdf for the entire book does not generate , instead it errors complaining
> that it cannot find a png that I added which is where it should be and with
> the correct and appropriate filename. I dont see why it has a problem with
> this.

the book compiles just fine now so I guess someone fixed the problem.
I guess the problem was that you forgot to update the figures path.
Read this paragraph
https://github.com/pillar-markup/book-skeleton#adding-a-chapter


> b) The layout is really messed up , it puts the image inside a code I have
> included and it looks very messy in the pdf.


Is this problem fixed already? If not, where can I see the problem? As
far as I can see, this looks nice:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/UpdatedPharoByExample/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/FirstApplication/FirstApplication.pier.pdf

--
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without
losing enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill

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Re: Improving Pharo By Example

kilon.alios
Well I just commented out the image that was braking the process so that it does compile the book this is why you see it as fixed. 

So no the problem is not fixed , just disabled. If you go to the previous commit you will see the problem. 

I did not add the path of the chapters in the template , so I went back and did that but that did not solve my problem. Still complains about being unable to find the image file. 

As I said in the previous email, the weirdness of the problem is that the chapter compiles fine, generates all files including the hmtl and pdf output and it displays the image in both of them with no problem other that it appears as if inside the code box for the copy paste of monticello which is the messed up layout I was talking about early on. The layout problem appears only on the pdf and not the hmtl output of the chapter. 

The problem is in the generation of the book, its as if Pillar had no issues generating the chapter and finding the image file but as soon as it tries to generate the whole book it has a problem with the image file. So either this is a Pillar bug , a Latex bug or I am missing something. 

Maybe there is something about the name it does not like, I tried other names and they failed too. 

Its not a big problem, I just wanted to add at least an image of smalltalkhub. So I will leave this to you to fix it when you find the time and if you want to. 


On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 5:05 PM, Damien Cassou <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, Jun 14, 2014 at 9:49 PM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
> a) Even though I can generate the pdf for the First Application chapter. the
> pdf for the entire book does not generate , instead it errors complaining
> that it cannot find a png that I added which is where it should be and with
> the correct and appropriate filename. I dont see why it has a problem with
> this.

the book compiles just fine now so I guess someone fixed the problem.
I guess the problem was that you forgot to update the figures path.
Read this paragraph
https://github.com/pillar-markup/book-skeleton#adding-a-chapter


> b) The layout is really messed up , it puts the image inside a code I have
> included and it looks very messy in the pdf.


Is this problem fixed already? If not, where can I see the problem? As
far as I can see, this looks nice:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/UpdatedPharoByExample/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/FirstApplication/FirstApplication.pier.pdf

--
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without
losing enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill


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Re: Improving Pharo By Example

Damien Cassou

On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 5:26 PM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
Its not a big problem, I just wanted to add at least an image of smalltalkhub. So I will leave this to you to fix it when you find the time and if you want to. 

please commit so that the build breaks. I will fix it when I see Jenkins report.


--
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill
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Re: Improving Pharo By Example

kilon.alios
commited as you commanded ;) Build should fail in a few minutes . By the way there was a build that failed previously for this problem. Its the previous one. 


On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 6:45 PM, Damien Cassou <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 5:26 PM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
Its not a big problem, I just wanted to add at least an image of smalltalkhub. So I will leave this to you to fix it when you find the time and if you want to. 

please commit so that the build breaks. I will fix it when I see Jenkins report.


--
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill

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Re: Improving Pharo By Example

Damien Cassou

On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 5:58 PM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
commited as you commanded ;) Build should fail in a few minutes . By the way there was a build that failed previously for this problem. Its the previous one. 



--
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill
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Re: Improving Pharo By Example

kilon.alios
thank you Damien, yes indeed it compiles now. So I was doing it wrong once more :D Sorry for wasting your time, I try to be careful but I make stupid mistakes at times. Will try to be more careful next time.

The layout problem still remains though for the Pdf. But I suspect thats a Latex problem. You can see the issue at page 34 of the pdf. I have several images with the layout of the page when it comes to images like sometimes it adds too much whitespace between text and image and now this. Again maybe I am doing something wrong here.


On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 7:16 PM, Damien Cassou <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 5:58 PM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
commited as you commanded ;) Build should fail in a few minutes . By the way there was a build that failed previously for this problem. Its the previous one. 



--
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill

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Re: Improving Pharo By Example

Damien Cassou
On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 6:40 PM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
> thank you Damien, yes indeed it compiles now. So I was doing it wrong once more :D Sorry for wasting your time, I try to be careful but I make stupid mistakes at times. Will try to be more careful next time.


don't problem. I'm not wasting my time because you are doing a job I
should have done months ago. So, thank you Kilon!


> The layout problem still remains though for the Pdf. But I suspect thats a Latex problem. You can see the issue at page 34 of the pdf. I have several images with the layout of the page when it comes to images like sometimes it adds too much whitespace between text and image and now this. Again maybe I am doing something wrong here.

could you please tell me exactly where is the problem? What should be different?


--
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without
losing enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill

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Re: Improving Pharo By Example

kilon.alios
did you take a look at the book pdf ? Can you see the page 34 ? 

by layout I mean the position of the image in the pdf is completely wrong, take a look at the html . Hmtl positions the image correctly , the pdf does not. 

To be even more specific the image should appear after

"In order to be able to use SmalltalkHub you will need an account. Using
the link provided go to the website with your internet browser. Just click on
the Join link and follow the instructions to create a new account. Then login
to your account.
"
but it does not, instead it continues the text 

then it correctly positions the code block

"MCHttpRepository
	location: 'http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/UserName/ProjectName/main'
	user: ''
	password: '' "
it displays the first line of the code block as the last line of the page , then it goes to the next page and instead of continuing the code block it positions the image !!!! then after the image it continues the code block. 

So basically the image appears inside the code block even though the image and the code block are a few paragraphs apart !!!

Now take a look at html it looks perfectly ok as it should be. 


On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 10:59 AM, Damien Cassou <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 6:40 PM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
> thank you Damien, yes indeed it compiles now. So I was doing it wrong once more :D Sorry for wasting your time, I try to be careful but I make stupid mistakes at times. Will try to be more careful next time.


don't problem. I'm not wasting my time because you are doing a job I
should have done months ago. So, thank you Kilon!


> The layout problem still remains though for the Pdf. But I suspect thats a Latex problem. You can see the issue at page 34 of the pdf. I have several images with the layout of the page when it comes to images like sometimes it adds too much whitespace between text and image and now this. Again maybe I am doing something wrong here.

could you please tell me exactly where is the problem? What should be different?


--
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without
losing enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill


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Re: Improving Pharo By Example

Damien Cassou
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 10:24 AM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
> So basically the image appears inside the code block even though the image
> and the code block are a few paragraphs apart !!!


oh, this! Don't worry about that, LaTeX is doing its job its own way
:-). LaTeX try to put the figures at the top of the pages when
possible.

Best

--
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without
losing enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill

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Re: Improving Pharo By Example

kilon.alios
ok I leave it to your capable hands and I will try to position images at the start of the page , though that is easier said than done :D

In any case chapters need proof reading so what I commit should never consider "the final version". But I always try to produce as much quality as I can. 


On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Damien Cassou <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 10:24 AM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
> So basically the image appears inside the code block even though the image
> and the code block are a few paragraphs apart !!!


oh, this! Don't worry about that, LaTeX is doing its job its own way
:-). LaTeX try to put the figures at the top of the pages when
possible.

Best

--
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without
losing enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill


12345