Renaming Squeak's system version from 'Squeak*alpha' to 'SqueakTrunk'
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Renaming Squeak's system version from 'Squeak*alpha' to 'SqueakTrunk'
 
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Hi there,
we have a system version: "SystemVersion current". For trunk images, it used to say 'Squeak4.1alpha' or something like it. Right now, it doesn't even add the 'alpha' suffix. Can we change that to 'SqueakTrunk'? What would break? Right now, SystemVersion works with a string rather than major/minor numbers. I assume that there is some code that parses that string. Metacello does that, for example. Any thoughts? Best, Marcel |
Re: Renaming Squeak's system version from 'Squeak*alpha' to 'SqueakTrunk'
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On 22.06.2016, at 11:24, marcel.taeumel <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi there, > > we have a system version: "SystemVersion current". For trunk images, it used > to say 'Squeak4.1alpha' or something like it. Right now, it doesn't even add > the 'alpha' suffix. > > Can we change that to 'SqueakTrunk'? What would break? Right now, > SystemVersion works with a string rather than major/minor numbers. I assume > that there is some code that parses that string. Metacello does that, for > example. > Any thoughts? Yes. SystemVersion current should give the following for 4.6 Squeak4.6 for 5.0 Squeak5.0 for trunk Squeak5.1alpha (or Squeak5.1trunk if it must be, but please Squeak{stable+1}{dev-indicator}) Best -Tobias > > Best, > Marcel |
Re: Renaming Squeak's system version from 'Squeak*alpha' to 'SqueakTrunk'
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Okay, we good improve the version number in trunk images and treat them as (Git) tags. ... Squeak5.1alpha Squeak5.1beta Squeak5.1rc1 Squeak5.1rc2 Squeak5.1rtm Squeak5.2alpha Squeak6.0alpha Squeak6.0beta ... Even if we decide to not make a minor release but a major the tag can jump. So, any suffix after the version number indicates the trunk stream. Alpha = Open to any code submittions Beta = Feature freeze, bug fixes only Rc1...n = Some bugs fixed, next try Rtm = Full code freeze, will be the one to release Would this work? Best, Marcel |
Re: Renaming Squeak's system version from 'Squeak*alpha' to 'SqueakTrunk'
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+1 Makes sense.
BTW, what does Rtm stand for? And how will minor maintenance releases be marked, which happen from time to time? As Tobias writes SystemVersion current does not return an 'alpha' suffix, this should be fixed. --Hannes On 6/22/16, marcel.taeumel <[hidden email]> wrote: > Tobias Pape wrote >> On 22.06.2016, at 11:24, marcel.taeumel < > >> Marcel.Taeumel@ > >> > wrote: >> >>> Hi there, >>> >>> we have a system version: "SystemVersion current". For trunk images, it >>> used >>> to say 'Squeak4.1alpha' or something like it. Right now, it doesn't even >>> add >>> the 'alpha' suffix. >>> >>> Can we change that to 'SqueakTrunk'? What would break? Right now, >>> SystemVersion works with a string rather than major/minor numbers. I >>> assume >>> that there is some code that parses that string. Metacello does that, >>> for >>> example. >>> Any thoughts? >> >> Yes. >> >> SystemVersion current should give the following >> >> for 4.6 Squeak4.6 >> for 5.0 Squeak5.0 >> for trunk Squeak5.1alpha (or Squeak5.1trunk if it must be, but please >> Squeak{stable+1}{dev-indicator}) >> >> Best >> -Tobias >> >> >>> >>> Best, >>> Marcel > > Okay, we good improve the version number in trunk images and treat them as > (Git) tags. > > ... > Squeak5.1alpha > Squeak5.1beta > Squeak5.1rc1 > Squeak5.1rc2 > Squeak5.1rtm > Squeak5.2alpha > Squeak6.0alpha > Squeak6.0beta > ... > > Even if we decide to not make a minor release but a major the tag can jump. > So, any suffix after the version number indicates the trunk stream. > > Alpha = Open to any code submittions > Beta = Feature freeze, bug fixes only > Rc1...n = Some bugs fixed, next try > Rtm = Full code freeze, will be the one to release > > Would this work? > > Best, > Marcel > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Renaming-Squeak-s-system-version-from-Squeak-alpha-to-SqueakTrunk-tp4902398p4902424.html > Sent from the Squeak - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > |
Re: Renaming Squeak's system version from 'Squeak*alpha' to 'SqueakTrunk'
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On 25.06.2016, at 13:05, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote: > +1 Makes sense. > > BTW, what does Rtm stand for? > And how will minor maintenance releases be marked, which happen from > time to time? Should be an additional digit, right? 4.5.1 or 5.1.2, for example. Best regards -Tobias > > As Tobias writes > > SystemVersion current > > > does not return an 'alpha' suffix, this should be fixed. > > > --Hannes > > On 6/22/16, marcel.taeumel <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Tobias Pape wrote >>> On 22.06.2016, at 11:24, marcel.taeumel < >> >>> Marcel.Taeumel@ >> >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> Hi there, >>>> >>>> we have a system version: "SystemVersion current". For trunk images, it >>>> used >>>> to say 'Squeak4.1alpha' or something like it. Right now, it doesn't even >>>> add >>>> the 'alpha' suffix. >>>> >>>> Can we change that to 'SqueakTrunk'? What would break? Right now, >>>> SystemVersion works with a string rather than major/minor numbers. I >>>> assume >>>> that there is some code that parses that string. Metacello does that, >>>> for >>>> example. >>>> Any thoughts? >>> >>> Yes. >>> >>> SystemVersion current should give the following >>> >>> for 4.6 Squeak4.6 >>> for 5.0 Squeak5.0 >>> for trunk Squeak5.1alpha (or Squeak5.1trunk if it must be, but please >>> Squeak{stable+1}{dev-indicator}) >>> >>> Best >>> -Tobias >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Marcel >> >> Okay, we good improve the version number in trunk images and treat them as >> (Git) tags. >> >> ... >> Squeak5.1alpha >> Squeak5.1beta >> Squeak5.1rc1 >> Squeak5.1rc2 >> Squeak5.1rtm >> Squeak5.2alpha >> Squeak6.0alpha >> Squeak6.0beta >> ... >> >> Even if we decide to not make a minor release but a major the tag can jump. >> So, any suffix after the version number indicates the trunk stream. >> >> Alpha = Open to any code submittions >> Beta = Feature freeze, bug fixes only >> Rc1...n = Some bugs fixed, next try >> Rtm = Full code freeze, will be the one to release >> >> Would this work? >> >> Best, >> Marcel >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://forum.world.st/Renaming-Squeak-s-system-version-from-Squeak-alpha-to-SqueakTrunk-tp4902398p4902424.html >> Sent from the Squeak - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. |
Re: Renaming Squeak's system version from 'Squeak*alpha' to 'SqueakTrunk'
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Would it make sense to keep track of the release build number and show the current increment in a separate way? Releases are basically branches from Trunk. E.g.: source.squeak.org/trunk source.squeak.org/squeak50 At release time, the code base is identical. Then, things might get cherry-picked from trunk into the release branch (here "squeak50"). Then, the summative build number would be confusing because "14023" in squeak50 is not the same as it is in trunk. What about doing it like GitHub branches and show "number of commits your are behind the main branch"? It could displayed like this: "Squeak 5.0 (Build 14000 +23/-324)" This means that the current image is a release image, created from trunk build 14000. There were 23 fixes in this branch since then and current Trunk is already 324 builds ahead. What do you think? Best, Marcel |
Re: Renaming Squeak's system version from 'Squeak*alpha' to 'SqueakTrunk'
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In reply to this post by Tobias Pape
2016-06-27 10:12 GMT+02:00 Taeumel, Marcel <[hidden email]>:
> > Would it make sense to keep track of the release build number and show the > current increment in a separate way? Releases are basically branches from > Trunk. E.g.: > > source.squeak.org/trunk > source.squeak.org/squeak50 > > At release time, the code base is identical. Then, things might get > cherry-picked from trunk into the release branch (here "squeak50"). Then, > the summative build number would be confusing because "14023" in squeak50 is > not the same as it is in trunk. > > What about doing it like GitHub branches and show "number of commits your > are behind the main branch"? It could displayed like this: > > "Squeak 5.0 (Build 14000 +23/-324)" > > This means that the current image is a release image, created from trunk > build 14000. There were 23 fixes in this branch since then and current Trunk > is already 324 builds ahead. > > What do you think? That looks very cryptic to me. IMHO, if you need to see your build's detailed relation to the initial release or the current trunk, you should ask the SCM system (Monticello) itself. If I were a newcomer, these +/- numbers would confuse me when I want to download a specific image version from the website. I would not expect someone to read a manual to understand the version numbering. For reference, in the Maven/Java world, artifacts get a version suffixed with -SNAPSHOT until you do a "release". If you have an artifact with a version of 1.2.3-SNAPSHOT you know that there will be dozens of other builds with the same version number because the snapshot suffix indicates that this number "1.2.3" has not been fixed yet. That is, it is semantically equivalent to your current notion of (or suffix) "trunk". If you do a release, you strip the -SNAPSHOT from the version number (or rather jump to the intended fixed version number), commit, tag, publish that version, then bump the version number and append -SNAPSHOT again. The fixed version labelled "1.2.3" is not expected to ever change again, so if you download one of these artifacts, you can be quite sure it is identical to other "1.2.3"s of that artifact you download later. I consider this a sufficient scheme in many cases. However, it does not map to an alpha-beta-rc process, unless you put that into the less significant parts of the version number (which makes comparing versions harder for machines). |
Re: Renaming Squeak's system version from 'Squeak*alpha' to 'SqueakTrunk'
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Hi Jakob, you're right. This information would have to appear in the file name of the downloads on the website. Hmm... right now, our build number is the sum of all MCZ versions in the trunk update stream. The goal here is to find a simple solution for that branching thing. Maybe the combination of release number and build number is enough to discriminate. I do not quite get your example about Maven/Java. I think that you relate to the ideas of suffixing the Trunk versions with alpha, beta, rc1, ..., rcn, alpha, ... However, my previous comment addresses the naming of release versions only and the role of the respective build number. :-) I think that an alternative to summing up the MCZ versions could be to only show the most recent commit date/time of the packages in the update map. Best, Marcel |
Re: Renaming Squeak's system version from 'Squeak*alpha' to 'SqueakTrunk'
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In reply to this post by Jakob Reschke-2
I didn't want to touch the build numbers issue directly because I did
not read all of that recent, related discussion about the VM versions. What is the purpose of each number? I thought the release version number ("5.1", "5.2 Trunk", ...) exists for publicity reasons and to find out if you should consider to "upgrade" your Squeak. The build number allows you to refer to a specific version/configuration, mainly for issue hunting, right? Can't we treat build numbers and release numbers independently from each other then? If yes, we could simply apply the Maven style version numbering (with "mutable" and "immutable" versions) to the release version numbers. It is very similar to what Tobias suggested, though, so you might as well consider my Maven paragraph as supporting Tobias' suggestion. ;-) "Squeak x.y" then just happens to also have a build number z, by chance. That's the current situation anyway, is it? If the release branch is updated, I would prefer if the patch number of that release were increased at the same time, instead of referring to a different build number for that release from now on. I don't know how an update map is made up, but would it be possible to version its configuration/state just like regular configurations, packages, or baselines? Then you could just use its SCM version number (hash/uuid, consecutive number if available, or timestamp) instead of summing up contained version numbers. 2016-06-27 12:44 GMT+02:00 Taeumel, Marcel <[hidden email]>: > Jakob Reschke wrote >> 2016-06-27 10:12 GMT+02:00 Taeumel, Marcel < > >> Marcel.Taeumel@ > >> >: >>> >>> Would it make sense to keep track of the release build number and show >>> the >>> current increment in a separate way? Releases are basically branches from >>> Trunk. E.g.: >>> >>> source.squeak.org/trunk >>> source.squeak.org/squeak50 >>> >>> At release time, the code base is identical. Then, things might get >>> cherry-picked from trunk into the release branch (here "squeak50"). Then, >>> the summative build number would be confusing because "14023" in squeak50 >>> is >>> not the same as it is in trunk. >>> >>> What about doing it like GitHub branches and show "number of commits your >>> are behind the main branch"? It could displayed like this: >>> >>> "Squeak 5.0 (Build 14000 +23/-324)" >>> >>> This means that the current image is a release image, created from trunk >>> build 14000. There were 23 fixes in this branch since then and current >>> Trunk >>> is already 324 builds ahead. >>> >>> What do you think? >> >> That looks very cryptic to me. IMHO, if you need to see your build's >> detailed relation to the initial release or the current trunk, you >> should ask the SCM system (Monticello) itself. If I were a newcomer, >> these +/- numbers would confuse me when I want to download a specific >> image version from the website. I would not expect someone to read a >> manual to understand the version numbering. >> >> For reference, in the Maven/Java world, artifacts get a version >> suffixed with -SNAPSHOT until you do a "release". If you have an >> artifact with a version of 1.2.3-SNAPSHOT you know that there will be >> dozens of other builds with the same version number because the >> snapshot suffix indicates that this number "1.2.3" has not been fixed >> yet. That is, it is semantically equivalent to your current notion of >> (or suffix) "trunk". If you do a release, you strip the -SNAPSHOT from >> the version number (or rather jump to the intended fixed version >> number), commit, tag, publish that version, then bump the version >> number and append -SNAPSHOT again. The fixed version labelled "1.2.3" >> is not expected to ever change again, so if you download one of these >> artifacts, you can be quite sure it is identical to other "1.2.3"s of >> that artifact you download later. I consider this a sufficient scheme >> in many cases. However, it does not map to an alpha-beta-rc process, >> unless you put that into the less significant parts of the version >> number (which makes comparing versions harder for machines). > > Hi Jakob, > > you're right. This information would have to appear in the file name of the > downloads on the website. Hmm... right now, our build number is the sum of > all MCZ versions in the trunk update stream. The goal here is to find a > simple solution for that branching thing. Maybe the combination of release > number and build number is enough to discriminate. > > I do not quite get your example about Maven/Java. I think that you relate to > the ideas of suffixing the Trunk versions with alpha, beta, rc1, ..., rcn, > alpha, ... However, my previous comment addresses the naming of release > versions only and the role of the respective build number. :-) > > I think that an alternative to summing up the MCZ versions could be to only > show the most recent commit date/time of the packages in the update map. > > Best, > Marcel > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Renaming-Squeak-s-system-version-from-Squeak-alpha-to-SqueakTrunk-tp4902398p4903565.html > Sent from the Squeak - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > |
Re: Renaming Squeak's system version from 'Squeak*alpha' to 'SqueakTrunk'
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In reply to this post by Hannes Hirzel
On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 4:05 AM, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote: +1 Makes sense. I'd like to know this too. No one seems to have answered this yet. What does "Rtm" mean? I know what RTFM means. Doesn't seem to fit here ;-) And how will minor maintenance releases be marked, which happen from _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot |
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Release To Manfacture
On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 1:01 AM, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 4:05 AM, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> +1 Makes sense. >> >> BTW, what does Rtm stand for? > > > I'd like to know this too. No one seems to have answered this yet. What > does "Rtm" mean? I know what RTFM means. Doesn't seem to fit here ;-) > >> >> And how will minor maintenance releases be marked, which happen from >> time to time? >> >> As Tobias writes >> >> SystemVersion current >> >> >> does not return an 'alpha' suffix, this should be fixed. >> >> >> --Hannes >> >> On 6/22/16, marcel.taeumel <[hidden email]> wrote: >> > Tobias Pape wrote >> >> On 22.06.2016, at 11:24, marcel.taeumel < >> > >> >> Marcel.Taeumel@ >> > >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >>> Hi there, >> >>> >> >>> we have a system version: "SystemVersion current". For trunk images, >> >>> it >> >>> used >> >>> to say 'Squeak4.1alpha' or something like it. Right now, it doesn't >> >>> even >> >>> add >> >>> the 'alpha' suffix. >> >>> >> >>> Can we change that to 'SqueakTrunk'? What would break? Right now, >> >>> SystemVersion works with a string rather than major/minor numbers. I >> >>> assume >> >>> that there is some code that parses that string. Metacello does that, >> >>> for >> >>> example. >> >>> Any thoughts? >> >> >> >> Yes. >> >> >> >> SystemVersion current should give the following >> >> >> >> for 4.6 Squeak4.6 >> >> for 5.0 Squeak5.0 >> >> for trunk Squeak5.1alpha (or Squeak5.1trunk if it must be, but >> >> please >> >> Squeak{stable+1}{dev-indicator}) >> >> >> >> Best >> >> -Tobias >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> Best, >> >>> Marcel >> > >> > Okay, we good improve the version number in trunk images and treat them >> > as >> > (Git) tags. >> > >> > ... >> > Squeak5.1alpha >> > Squeak5.1beta >> > Squeak5.1rc1 >> > Squeak5.1rc2 >> > Squeak5.1rtm >> > Squeak5.2alpha >> > Squeak6.0alpha >> > Squeak6.0beta >> > ... >> > >> > Even if we decide to not make a minor release but a major the tag can >> > jump. >> > So, any suffix after the version number indicates the trunk stream. >> > >> > Alpha = Open to any code submittions >> > Beta = Feature freeze, bug fixes only >> > Rc1...n = Some bugs fixed, next try >> > Rtm = Full code freeze, will be the one to release >> > >> > Would this work? >> > >> > Best, >> > Marcel >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > View this message in context: >> > >> > http://forum.world.st/Renaming-Squeak-s-system-version-from-Squeak-alpha-to-SqueakTrunk-tp4902398p4902424.html >> > Sent from the Squeak - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> > >> > >> > > > > -- > _,,,^..^,,,_ > best, Eliot > > > |
Re: Renaming Squeak's system version from 'Squeak*alpha' to 'SqueakTrunk'
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On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 10:25 AM, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote: Release To Manfacture I much prefer "final".
_,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot |
Re: Renaming Squeak's system version from 'Squeak*alpha' to 'SqueakTrunk'
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In reply to this post by Eliot Miranda-2
Rtm - release to manufacturing Sent from my iPad
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Re: Renaming Squeak's system version from 'Squeak*alpha' to 'SqueakTrunk'
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In reply to this post by Eliot Miranda-2
RTM is not needed. After rc_n comes alpha plus the release with no suffix. Best, Marcel |
Re: Renaming Squeak's system version from 'Squeak*alpha' to 'SqueakTrunk'
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On 28.06.2016, at 09:36, marcel.taeumel <[hidden email]> wrote: > Eliot Miranda-2 wrote >> On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 10:25 AM, Ben Coman < > >> btc@ > >> > wrote: >> >>> Release To Manfacture >>> >> >> I much prefer "final". >> >> >> >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 1:01 AM, Eliot Miranda < > >> eliot.miranda@ > >> > >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 4:05 AM, H. Hirzel < > >> hannes.hirzel@ > >> > >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> +1 Makes sense. >>>>> >>>>> BTW, what does Rtm stand for? >>>> >>>> >>>> I'd like to know this too. No one seems to have answered this yet. >>> What >>>> does "Rtm" mean? I know what RTFM means. Doesn't seem to fit here ;-) >>>> >>>>> >>>>> And how will minor maintenance releases be marked, which happen from >>>>> time to time? >>>>> >>>>> As Tobias writes >>>>> >>>>> SystemVersion current >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> does not return an 'alpha' suffix, this should be fixed. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --Hannes >>>>> >>>>> On 6/22/16, marcel.taeumel < > >> Marcel.Taeumel@ > >> > wrote: >>> images, >>> doesn't >>> I >>> that, >>> them >>> can >>> http://forum.world.st/Renaming-Squeak-s-system-version-from-Squeak-alpha-to-SqueakTrunk-tp4902398p4902424.html >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> _,,,^..^,,,_ >>>> best, Eliot >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> _,,,^..^,,,_ >> best, Eliot > > RTM is not needed. After rc_n comes alpha plus the release with no suffix. I thought alpha always precedes rc's? :D > > Best, > Marcel |
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How about: ... - final (new release) --------------------------- - alpha + build number - beta + build number (as soon as there is a release manager / we are working towards a new release) - rc1, rc2, ... (release candidates built or approved by release manager) - final (new release) --------------------------- ... If we agree that the next version should be called for example 5.2, it will be called 5.2 all along the release process except if we decide it should be a major release. Then we do the renaming in or after the release candidate phase. Example: 5.2 alpha-X, 5.2 beta-X, [ major release decision ], 6.0 RC1, 6.0 Final. On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 10:27 AM Tobias Pape <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: Renaming Squeak's system version from 'Squeak*alpha' to 'SqueakTrunk'
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Again, there is no need for "final" because the release itself does not need a suffix. It has its own repository, a version number, and usually also a build number. Only for the trunk versions, we need alpha, beta, rc to distinguish feature freeze and code freeze. "beta" is feature freeze and "rc" is code freeze. Best, Marcel |
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-- On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 10:44 AM marcel.taeumel <[hidden email]> wrote: fniephaus wrote Agreed. I wouldn't put "final" in the version string, so when I see a 6.0, I know it is final. :)
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