The Trunk: Kernel-cmm.757.mcz
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Chris Muller uploaded a new version of Kernel to project The Trunk:
http://source.squeak.org/trunk/Kernel-cmm.757.mcz ==================== Summary ==================== Name: Kernel-cmm.757 Author: cmm Time: 3 May 2013, 11:37:02.186 am UUID: 655c18f5-1a73-4fae-bd0d-0e2bb4bb06d7 Ancestors: Kernel-dtl.756 - Added convenience methods for creating DateAndTimes relative to now. - When materializing Floats via fromIEEE32Bit:, use the canonicalized 0.0. =============== Diff against Kernel-dtl.756 =============== Item was added: + ----- Method: Duration>>ago (in category 'squeak protocol') ----- + ago + "Answer the DateAndTime which was the receiver's duration ago. + e.g., 5 minutes ago. 2 days ago." + ^ DateAndTime now - self! Item was added: + ----- Method: Duration>>fromNow (in category 'squeak protocol') ----- + fromNow + "Answer the DateAndTime which which occurs the receiver's duration from now. + e.g., 5 minutes fromNow. 2 days fromNow." + ^ DateAndTime now + self! |
Re: The Trunk: Kernel-cmm.757.mcz
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Then we should close http://bugs.squeak.org/bug_view_advanced_page.php?bug_id=7255 See also the link to http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/24457/general-purpose-antonym-for-ago2013/5/3 <[hidden email]> Chris Muller uploaded a new version of Kernel to project The Trunk: |
Re: The Trunk: Kernel-cmm.757.mcz
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"hence" is equally meaningful as "fromNow", but more old-world
sounding. I think "ago" and "fromNow" are more compatible with each other in terms of modern language use. IMO, "ahead" and "toGo" are not a good fit. On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 11:44 AM, Nicolas Cellier <[hidden email]> wrote: > Then we should close > http://bugs.squeak.org/bug_view_advanced_page.php?bug_id=7255 > See also the link to > http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/24457/general-purpose-antonym-for-ago > > > 2013/5/3 <[hidden email]> > >> Chris Muller uploaded a new version of Kernel to project The Trunk: >> http://source.squeak.org/trunk/Kernel-cmm.757.mcz >> >> ==================== Summary ==================== >> >> Name: Kernel-cmm.757 >> Author: cmm >> Time: 3 May 2013, 11:37:02.186 am >> UUID: 655c18f5-1a73-4fae-bd0d-0e2bb4bb06d7 >> Ancestors: Kernel-dtl.756 >> >> - Added convenience methods for creating DateAndTimes relative to now. >> - When materializing Floats via fromIEEE32Bit:, use the canonicalized 0.0. >> >> =============== Diff against Kernel-dtl.756 =============== >> >> Item was added: >> + ----- Method: Duration>>ago (in category 'squeak protocol') ----- >> + ago >> + "Answer the DateAndTime which was the receiver's duration ago. >> + e.g., 5 minutes ago. 2 days ago." >> + ^ DateAndTime now - self! >> >> Item was added: >> + ----- Method: Duration>>fromNow (in category 'squeak protocol') ----- >> + fromNow >> + "Answer the DateAndTime which which occurs the receiver's duration >> from now. >> + e.g., 5 minutes fromNow. 2 days fromNow." >> + ^ DateAndTime now + self! >> >> > > > > |
Re: The Trunk: Kernel-cmm.757.mcz
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On 3 May 2013 18:17, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote:
> "hence" is equally meaningful as "fromNow", but more old-world > sounding. I think "ago" and "fromNow" are more compatible with each > other in terms of modern language use. > > IMO, "ahead" and "toGo" are not a good fit. "5 minutes toGo" sounds a lot like a Delay! frank > On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 11:44 AM, Nicolas Cellier > <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Then we should close >> http://bugs.squeak.org/bug_view_advanced_page.php?bug_id=7255 >> See also the link to >> http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/24457/general-purpose-antonym-for-ago >> >> >> 2013/5/3 <[hidden email]> >> >>> Chris Muller uploaded a new version of Kernel to project The Trunk: >>> http://source.squeak.org/trunk/Kernel-cmm.757.mcz >>> >>> ==================== Summary ==================== >>> >>> Name: Kernel-cmm.757 >>> Author: cmm >>> Time: 3 May 2013, 11:37:02.186 am >>> UUID: 655c18f5-1a73-4fae-bd0d-0e2bb4bb06d7 >>> Ancestors: Kernel-dtl.756 >>> >>> - Added convenience methods for creating DateAndTimes relative to now. >>> - When materializing Floats via fromIEEE32Bit:, use the canonicalized 0.0. >>> >>> =============== Diff against Kernel-dtl.756 =============== >>> >>> Item was added: >>> + ----- Method: Duration>>ago (in category 'squeak protocol') ----- >>> + ago >>> + "Answer the DateAndTime which was the receiver's duration ago. >>> + e.g., 5 minutes ago. 2 days ago." >>> + ^ DateAndTime now - self! >>> >>> Item was added: >>> + ----- Method: Duration>>fromNow (in category 'squeak protocol') ----- >>> + fromNow >>> + "Answer the DateAndTime which which occurs the receiver's duration >>> from now. >>> + e.g., 5 minutes fromNow. 2 days fromNow." >>> + ^ DateAndTime now + self! >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > |
Re: The Trunk: Kernel-cmm.757.mcz
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In reply to this post by Nicolas Cellier
Are those tests recoverable? I'd like to see those in the image!
frank On 3 May 2013 17:44, Nicolas Cellier <[hidden email]> wrote: > Then we should close > http://bugs.squeak.org/bug_view_advanced_page.php?bug_id=7255 > See also the link to > http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/24457/general-purpose-antonym-for-ago > > > 2013/5/3 <[hidden email]> > >> Chris Muller uploaded a new version of Kernel to project The Trunk: >> http://source.squeak.org/trunk/Kernel-cmm.757.mcz >> >> ==================== Summary ==================== >> >> Name: Kernel-cmm.757 >> Author: cmm >> Time: 3 May 2013, 11:37:02.186 am >> UUID: 655c18f5-1a73-4fae-bd0d-0e2bb4bb06d7 >> Ancestors: Kernel-dtl.756 >> >> - Added convenience methods for creating DateAndTimes relative to now. >> - When materializing Floats via fromIEEE32Bit:, use the canonicalized 0.0. >> >> =============== Diff against Kernel-dtl.756 =============== >> >> Item was added: >> + ----- Method: Duration>>ago (in category 'squeak protocol') ----- >> + ago >> + "Answer the DateAndTime which was the receiver's duration ago. >> + e.g., 5 minutes ago. 2 days ago." >> + ^ DateAndTime now - self! >> >> Item was added: >> + ----- Method: Duration>>fromNow (in category 'squeak protocol') ----- >> + fromNow >> + "Answer the DateAndTime which which occurs the receiver's duration >> from now. >> + e.g., 5 minutes fromNow. 2 days fromNow." >> + ^ DateAndTime now + self! >> >> > > > > |
Re: The Trunk: Kernel-cmm.757.mcz
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They're a start, but they don't cover the behaviour sufficiently (for
me, at least). But I've pushed M8R's tests to trunk. frank On 3 May 2013 21:00, Frank Shearar <[hidden email]> wrote: > Are those tests recoverable? I'd like to see those in the image! > > frank > > On 3 May 2013 17:44, Nicolas Cellier <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Then we should close >> http://bugs.squeak.org/bug_view_advanced_page.php?bug_id=7255 >> See also the link to >> http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/24457/general-purpose-antonym-for-ago >> >> >> 2013/5/3 <[hidden email]> >> >>> Chris Muller uploaded a new version of Kernel to project The Trunk: >>> http://source.squeak.org/trunk/Kernel-cmm.757.mcz >>> >>> ==================== Summary ==================== >>> >>> Name: Kernel-cmm.757 >>> Author: cmm >>> Time: 3 May 2013, 11:37:02.186 am >>> UUID: 655c18f5-1a73-4fae-bd0d-0e2bb4bb06d7 >>> Ancestors: Kernel-dtl.756 >>> >>> - Added convenience methods for creating DateAndTimes relative to now. >>> - When materializing Floats via fromIEEE32Bit:, use the canonicalized 0.0. >>> >>> =============== Diff against Kernel-dtl.756 =============== >>> >>> Item was added: >>> + ----- Method: Duration>>ago (in category 'squeak protocol') ----- >>> + ago >>> + "Answer the DateAndTime which was the receiver's duration ago. >>> + e.g., 5 minutes ago. 2 days ago." >>> + ^ DateAndTime now - self! >>> >>> Item was added: >>> + ----- Method: Duration>>fromNow (in category 'squeak protocol') ----- >>> + fromNow >>> + "Answer the DateAndTime which which occurs the receiver's duration >>> from now. >>> + e.g., 5 minutes fromNow. 2 days fromNow." >>> + ^ DateAndTime now + self! >>> >>> >> >> >> >> |
Re: The Trunk: Kernel-cmm.757.mcz
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In reply to this post by Chris Muller-3
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote: "hence" is equally meaningful as "fromNow", but more old-world No! "Hence" is the proper the proper and perfectly cromulent antonym for "ago." The fact that many people use circumlocutions to compensate for a deficient vocabulary does not mitigate this truth.
Colin |
Re: The Trunk: Kernel-cmm.757.mcz
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On 4 May 2013 08:34, Colin Putney <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> "hence" is equally meaningful as "fromNow", but more old-world >> sounding. I think "ago" and "fromNow" are more compatible with each >> other in terms of modern language use. > > > No! > > "Hence" is the proper the proper and perfectly cromulent antonym for "ago." > The fact that many people use circumlocutions to compensate for a deficient > vocabulary does not mitigate this truth. Eschew obfuscation! Espouse elucidation! I back Colin's position with moderate strength; a compromise would be to have both :) #fromNow would delegate to #hence, of course. frank > Colin > > > |
Re: The Trunk: Kernel-cmm.757.mcz
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Hence have other meanings and could be ambiguous hence I suggest we do not use it. Karl On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Frank Shearar <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: The Trunk: Kernel-cmm.757.mcz
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While I enjoy the mockery ... to this non-native speaker, #ago and #fromNow are perfectly clear, and I can't think of a better substitute for either. - Bert - On 2013-05-04, at 12:09, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: The Trunk: Kernel-cmm.757.mcz
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In reply to this post by Colin Putney-3
For fun, did you see my comment http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/24457/general-purpose-antonym-for-ago/24458#comment197066_24458 hence is so old that google could not even translate it correctly in french when I tried ;) 2013/5/4 Colin Putney <[hidden email]>
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Re: The Trunk: Kernel-cmm.757.mcz
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In reply to this post by Karl Ramberg
But the other meaning - therefore/because - is clearly distinguishable. Booleans and durations aren't that easily confused. frank
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Re: The Trunk: Kernel-cmm.757.mcz
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In reply to this post by Bert Freudenberg
On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 3:58 AM, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
I can! #hence is a better substitute for #fromNow. One of the hardest problem in computing is to find names for things. We're constantly struggling to come up with names that have correct connotation and denotation, and accurately reflect the relationships that these objects of the virtual world we create have to each other. Normally we have to rely on metaphor, convention, and OverlyLongExcessivelyQualifiedNames to manage it. When there happens to be a word that precisely captures the meaning we are seeking, we should use it, even if it's not common used in every day language.
The word "cache" is a good example of this. It's actually a word with an everyday, non-technical meaning. It's also very obscure, for those of use who don't spend much time in the wilderness. But it perfectly conveys that thing that we do with data in computers, and so we use it pervasively and expect those who are unfamiliar with the term to learn it.
So it is with "hence." Who cares if the guy sitting next to you at the bar won't use it when you ask when the game starts? It's perfect for our purposes. Colin
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Re: The Trunk: Kernel-cmm.757.mcz
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In reply to this post by Colin Putney-3
Your average syllables-per-word jumped in this mail Colin! ;) I had
to look up "cromulent". Dictionary.com defines it as, "fine, acceptable". Why not just say "fine" then? Ah, urban Dictionary's definition says: "Used in an ironical sense to mean legitimate, and therefore, in reality, spurious and not at all legitimate. Assumes common knowledge of the inherent Simpsons reference." Since we already have DateAndTime "now", I think "fromNow" is the most explicit, literal, and unambiguous term possible. It was in the thesaurus and is used in modern language today, making it perfectly valid. One more thing to consider would be to honor the original author's ("wiz" -- who is that?) and file-in his actual methods so they'll have his 2009 timestamp on them. That's just the archivist inside me talking. However, as my vocabulary is most definitely deficient, I will defer to the academic linguists here. Feel free to change it to #hence if you prefer that. On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 2:34 AM, Colin Putney <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> "hence" is equally meaningful as "fromNow", but more old-world >> sounding. I think "ago" and "fromNow" are more compatible with each >> other in terms of modern language use. > > > No! > > "Hence" is the proper the proper and perfectly cromulent antonym for "ago." > The fact that many people use circumlocutions to compensate for a deficient > vocabulary does not mitigate this truth. > > Colin |
Re: The Trunk: Kernel-cmm.757.mcz
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On 4 May 2013 18:18, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Your average syllables-per-word jumped in this mail Colin! ;) *cough* http://www.lshift.net/blog/2013/04/27/how-readable-are-your-comments > I had > to look up "cromulent". Dictionary.com defines it as, "fine, > acceptable". Why not just say "fine" then? Ah, urban Dictionary's > definition says: "Used in an ironical sense to mean legitimate, and > therefore, in reality, spurious and not at all legitimate. Assumes > common knowledge of the inherent Simpsons reference." > > Since we already have DateAndTime "now", I think "fromNow" is the most > explicit, literal, and unambiguous term possible. It was in the > thesaurus and is used in modern language today, making it perfectly > valid. > > One more thing to consider would be to honor the original author's > ("wiz" -- who is that?) and file-in his actual methods so they'll have > his 2009 timestamp on them. That's just the archivist inside me > talking. Jerome Peace. > However, as my vocabulary is most definitely deficient, I will defer > to the academic linguists here. Feel free to change it to #hence if > you prefer that. Hence (sic) my suggestion of having both, so that both the Right and Wrong people may win! frank > On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 2:34 AM, Colin Putney <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> "hence" is equally meaningful as "fromNow", but more old-world >>> sounding. I think "ago" and "fromNow" are more compatible with each >>> other in terms of modern language use. >> >> >> No! >> >> "Hence" is the proper the proper and perfectly cromulent antonym for "ago." >> The fact that many people use circumlocutions to compensate for a deficient >> vocabulary does not mitigate this truth. >> >> Colin > |
Re: The Trunk: Kernel-cmm.757.mcz
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In reply to this post by Frank Shearar-3
On 04-05-2013, at 1:28 AM, Frank Shearar <[hidden email]> wrote: > On 4 May 2013 08:34, Colin Putney <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> "hence" is equally meaningful as "fromNow", but more old-world >>> sounding. I think "ago" and "fromNow" are more compatible with each >>> other in terms of modern language use. >> >> >> No! >> >> "Hence" is the proper the proper and perfectly cromulent antonym for "ago." >> The fact that many people use circumlocutions to compensate for a deficient >> vocabulary does not mitigate this truth. > > Eschew obfuscation! Espouse elucidation! It's important to avoid a descent into otiose prolixity tim -- tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Common sense – so rare it’s a goddam superpower |
Re: The Trunk: Kernel-cmm.757.mcz
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In reply to this post by Frank Shearar-3
On 04-05-2013, at 1:28 AM, Frank Shearar <[hidden email]> wrote: > On 4 May 2013 08:34, Colin Putney <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> "hence" is equally meaningful as "fromNow", but more old-world >>> sounding. I think "ago" and "fromNow" are more compatible with each >>> other in terms of modern language use. >> >> >> No! >> >> "Hence" is the proper the proper and perfectly cromulent antonym for "ago." >> The fact that many people use circumlocutions to compensate for a deficient >> vocabulary does not mitigate this truth. > > Eschew obfuscation! Espouse elucidation! It is perpetually important to elude a descent into otiose prolixity, or to propose an alternative, obviate pleonastic excess. tim -- tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Oxymorons: Almost exactly |
Re: The Trunk: Kernel-cmm.757.mcz
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In reply to this post by Karl Ramberg
Exactly. For example, just searching the Squeak list for the word
hence, the first one I picked randomly, someone used it in this sentence: "So, the answer will be different and hence it is not the same." Clearly, that usage of the word hence is not describing "a point in time relative to now." On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 5:09 AM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hence have other meanings and could be ambiguous hence I suggest we do not > use it. > > Karl > > > On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Frank Shearar <[hidden email]> > wrote: >> >> On 4 May 2013 08:34, Colin Putney <[hidden email]> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> "hence" is equally meaningful as "fromNow", but more old-world >> >> sounding. I think "ago" and "fromNow" are more compatible with each >> >> other in terms of modern language use. >> > >> > >> > No! >> > >> > "Hence" is the proper the proper and perfectly cromulent antonym for >> > "ago." >> > The fact that many people use circumlocutions to compensate for a >> > deficient >> > vocabulary does not mitigate this truth. >> >> Eschew obfuscation! Espouse elucidation! >> >> I back Colin's position with moderate strength; a compromise would be >> to have both :) #fromNow would delegate to #hence, of course. >> >> frank >> >> > Colin >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > |
Re: The Trunk: Kernel-cmm.757.mcz
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Well, no, but English has a habit (as in the thing that nuns wear) of
overloading names. Put the boot into your boots, and put them in my car's boot. Lead by example, with those lead boots. But we still manage to make sense of it. And hence, and henceforth, "hence" will remain "in the future" and "therefore". frank (I do love a good bikeshed.) On 4 May 2013 20:23, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote: > Exactly. For example, just searching the Squeak list for the word > hence, the first one I picked randomly, someone used it in this > sentence: > > "So, the answer will be different and hence it is not the same." > > Clearly, that usage of the word hence is not describing "a point in > time relative to now." > > > On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 5:09 AM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Hence have other meanings and could be ambiguous hence I suggest we do not >> use it. >> >> Karl >> >> >> On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Frank Shearar <[hidden email]> >> wrote: >>> >>> On 4 May 2013 08:34, Colin Putney <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> >>> > wrote: >>> >> >>> >> "hence" is equally meaningful as "fromNow", but more old-world >>> >> sounding. I think "ago" and "fromNow" are more compatible with each >>> >> other in terms of modern language use. >>> > >>> > >>> > No! >>> > >>> > "Hence" is the proper the proper and perfectly cromulent antonym for >>> > "ago." >>> > The fact that many people use circumlocutions to compensate for a >>> > deficient >>> > vocabulary does not mitigate this truth. >>> >>> Eschew obfuscation! Espouse elucidation! >>> >>> I back Colin's position with moderate strength; a compromise would be >>> to have both :) #fromNow would delegate to #hence, of course. >>> >>> frank >>> >>> > Colin >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >> >> >> >> > |
Re: The Trunk: Kernel-cmm.757.mcz
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In reply to this post by Chris Muller-4
On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote: Your average syllables-per-word jumped in this mail Colin! ;) I had Nah, the irony was sooo 90's and in the 21st century it just means legitimate. Of course, there's irony in *that* too.
Ok, discussions of vocabulary are always diverting, and some puns are irresistible, but I'm quite serious. "Hence" is totally the correct word here. I'm also saddened that so many people are against it. I guess the lowest common denominator always wins in the end.
Colin |
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