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Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph

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Sean P. DeNigris

Sep 16, 2014; 12:05am

Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph

Administrator

I need to create such a beast. What is my best bet to build on top of? I see the GT playground seems to have something like this for the Roassal previews...

Cheers,
Sean

Sean P. DeNigris

Sep 16, 2014; 12:18am

Re: Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph

Administrator

Sean P. DeNigris wrote

I see the GT playground seems to have something like this for the Roassal previews...

Although digging a bit, I see that the sub-objects are not true Morphs, so it seems that particular approach is not applicable...

Cheers,
Sean

abergel

Sep 16, 2014; 1:54am

Re: Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph

Hi!

Can you describe a bit more what you need? In Roassal, you do not have submorph, but do you really need them?

Alexandre

> Le 15-09-2014 à 20:18, "Sean P. DeNigris" <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
> Sean P. DeNigris wrote
>> I see the GT playground seems to have something like this for the Roassal
>> previews...
>
> Although digging a bit, I see that the sub-objects are not true Morphs, so
> it seems that particular approach is not applicable...
>
>
>
> -----
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Zoomable-Infinitely-scrollable-PasteupMorph-tp4778229p4778230.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>

... [show rest of quote]

Sean P. DeNigris

Sep 16, 2014; 11:12am

Re: Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph

Administrator

On Sep 15, 2014, at 9:54 PM, "abergel [via Smalltalk]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Can you describe a bit more what you need? In Roassal, you do not have submorph, but do you really need them?
Yes, I want to create a Self-like world that is also zoomable, so you could say the whole purpose is to have submorphs ;)

Cheers,
Sean

S Krish

Sep 16, 2014; 11:58am

Re: Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph

Interesting thought from a CAD drawing world, one does this all the time..

Basic morph level zooms as a contained sub morphs to some extent could be possible as proof of concept.

I am sure it will be lot more involved beyond a point to make everything contained zoomable, text editor: text / image , other compositions , layouts being honored properly..

I am not aware of Self zoom.. need to check on it.

On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 4:43 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Sep 15, 2014, at 9:54 PM, "abergel [via Smalltalk]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Can you describe a bit more what you need? In Roassal, you do not have submorph, but do you really need them?
Yes, I want to create a Self-like world that is also zoomable, so you could say the whole purpose is to have submorphs ;)
Cheers,
Sean

View this message in context: Re: Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph

Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Sean P. DeNigris

Sep 16, 2014; 1:09pm

Re: Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph

Administrator

On Sep 16, 2014, at 7:59 AM, "S Krish [via Smalltalk]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I am sure it will be lot more involved beyond a point to make everything contained zoomable, text editor: text / image , other compositions , layouts being honored properly..
Yes I assume that text is where things would get complicated

> I am not aware of Self zoom.. need to check on it.
Self doesn't zoom, but it scrolls infinitely.

Cheers,
Sean

Thierry Goubier

Sep 16, 2014; 1:45pm

Re: Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph

For infinitely zoomable interface, an old body of work and research on the possibilities is Pad++ [http://www.cs.umd.edu/hcil/pad++/] .

Parcplace did some stuff too. Squeak seemed to have something at one point.

Thierry

2014-09-16 15:09 GMT+02:00 Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]>:

On Sep 16, 2014, at 7:59 AM, "S Krish [via Smalltalk]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I am sure it will be lot more involved beyond a point to make everything contained zoomable, text editor: text / image , other compositions , layouts being honored properly..
Yes I assume that text is where things would get complicated

> I am not aware of Self zoom.. need to check on it.
Self doesn't zoom, but it scrolls infinitely.
Cheers,
Sean

View this message in context: Re: Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

abergel

Sep 16, 2014; 4:07pm

Re: Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph

In reply to this post by Sean P. DeNigris

In the word “submorph” there are two important parts. “sub” and “morph”. Roassal support subelements, but only one morph is around, the trachel morph that contains all the drawing.
Why staying in Morphic? Morphic does not scale well, does not have layout, and morphs are hardly composable with other morphs :-)

Cheers,
Alexandre

On Sep 16, 2014, at 7:13 AM, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sep 15, 2014, at 9:54 PM, "abergel [via Smalltalk]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Can you describe a bit more what you need? In Roassal, you do not have submorph, but do you really need them?
> Yes, I want to create a Self-like world that is also zoomable, so you could say the whole purpose is to have submorphs ;)
> Cheers,
> Sean
>
> View this message in context: Re: Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Sean P. DeNigris

Sep 16, 2014; 4:13pm

Re: Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph

Administrator

On Sep 16, 2014, at 12:08 PM, "abergel [via Smalltalk]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Why staying in Morphic?
I want a "morph" with all the existing capabilities of a WorldMorph, that also has zooming and infinite scrolling. Is this easily possible via Roassal/Trachel?

Cheers,
Sean

abergel

Sep 16, 2014; 4:19pm

Re: Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph

Here is an example:
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| v |
v := RTView new.
v @ RTZoomableView.
v add: (RTLabel new elementOn:
'Scroll your mouse wheel
while hovering cursor
over the view to zoom it').
v
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=700319393387994&set=vb.340543479365589&type=2&theater

Zooming is not infinite here. There is nothing that prevent us from doing it. It is just we have not faced any need. What would be a simple and compelling example of infinite zooming? This would be fun to implement. Each element should have a depth right? And zooming is actually moving the camera in and out?

Cheers,
Alexandre

On Sep 16, 2014, at 12:13 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sep 16, 2014, at 12:08 PM, "abergel [via Smalltalk]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Why staying in Morphic?
> I want a "morph" with all the existing capabilities of a WorldMorph, that also has zooming and infinite scrolling. Is this easily possible via Roassal/Trachel?
> Cheers,
> Sean
>
> View this message in context: Re: Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Sean P. DeNigris

Sep 16, 2014; 4:27pm

Re: Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph

Administrator

On Sep 16, 2014, at 12:20 PM, "abergel [via Smalltalk]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Zooming is not infinite here
Zooming wouldn't need to be, only scrolling e.g. an infinitely large world viewed through a small viewport

Cheers,
Sean

Denis Kudriashov

Sep 16, 2014; 5:30pm

Re: Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph

In reply to this post by abergel

Hi.

Do you think Roassal can replace Morphic at all?

2014-09-16 20:07 GMT+04:00 Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]>:

In the word “submorph” there are two important parts. “sub” and “morph”. Roassal support subelements, but only one morph is around, the trachel morph that contains all the drawing.
Why staying in Morphic? Morphic does not scale well, does not have layout, and morphs are hardly composable with other morphs :-)

Cheers,
Alexandre

On Sep 16, 2014, at 7:13 AM, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sep 15, 2014, at 9:54 PM, "abergel [via Smalltalk]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Can you describe a bit more what you need? In Roassal, you do not have submorph, but do you really need them?
> Yes, I want to create a Self-like world that is also zoomable, so you could say the whole purpose is to have submorphs ;)
> Cheers,
> Sean
>

> View this message in context: Re: Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

... [show rest of quote]

abergel

Sep 18, 2014; 3:46am

Re: Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph

Yes it can. But Roassal is not made to replace Morphic.
In my opinion, Morphic is not simply about having graphic elements answering events, as Roassal does. Morphic provides ways to build sophisticated UI (even if Morphic behaves poorly in comparison with state-of-the-art UI frameworks). Roassal is made to visualize and interact with data.

As it is defined today, Roassal is not made to build sophisticated UI.

Cheers,
Alexandre

On Sep 16, 2014, at 10:30 AM, Denis Kudriashov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Do you think Roassal can replace Morphic at all?
>

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

philippeback

Sep 18, 2014; 5:05am

Re: Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph

Ah one thing with roassal:

Please honor the global keymappings and morph local ones.

TRMorph swallows them due to the key press related methods which hijack them all.

Once a TRMorph is active is feels weird.

I love TRMorph and animations. Very nice code.

Phil

Le 18 sept. 2014 05:46, "Alexandre Bergel" <[hidden email]> a écrit :

Yes it can. But Roassal is not made to replace Morphic.
In my opinion, Morphic is not simply about having graphic elements answering events, as Roassal does. Morphic provides ways to build sophisticated UI (even if Morphic behaves poorly in comparison with state-of-the-art UI frameworks). Roassal is made to visualize and interact with data.

As it is defined today, Roassal is not made to build sophisticated UI.

Cheers,
Alexandre

On Sep 16, 2014, at 10:30 AM, Denis Kudriashov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Do you think Roassal can replace Morphic at all?
>

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

... [show rest of quote]

abergel

Sep 18, 2014; 5:20am

Re: Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph

> Ah one thing with roassal:
>
> Please honor the global keymappings and morph local ones.
>
> TRMorph swallows them due to the key press related methods which hijack them all.

Is there another keystroke than cmd-w ?

> Once a TRMorph is active is feels weird.
>
> I love TRMorph and animations. Very nice code.

Thanks!

Alexandre

>
>
>
> Le 18 sept. 2014 05:46, "Alexandre Bergel" <[hidden email]> a écrit :
> Yes it can. But Roassal is not made to replace Morphic.
> In my opinion, Morphic is not simply about having graphic elements answering events, as Roassal does. Morphic provides ways to build sophisticated UI (even if Morphic behaves poorly in comparison with state-of-the-art UI frameworks). Roassal is made to visualize and interact with data.
>
> As it is defined today, Roassal is not made to build sophisticated UI.
>
> Cheers,
> Alexandre
>
>
> On Sep 16, 2014, at 10:30 AM, Denis Kudriashov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Do you think Roassal can replace Morphic at all?
> >
>
> --
> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>
>
>
>
>

... [show rest of quote]

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Dennis Schetinin

Oct 29, 2014; 11:05am

Re: Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph

Sean, any news on the topic?

Best regards,

Dennis Schetinin

2014-09-18 9:20 GMT+04:00 Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]>:

> Ah one thing with roassal:
>
> Please honor the global keymappings and morph local ones.
>
> TRMorph swallows them due to the key press related methods which hijack them all.

Is there another keystroke than cmd-w ?

> Once a TRMorph is active is feels weird.
>
> I love TRMorph and animations. Very nice code.

Thanks!

Alexandre

>
>
>
> Le 18 sept. 2014 05:46, "Alexandre Bergel" <[hidden email]> a écrit :
> Yes it can. But Roassal is not made to replace Morphic.
> In my opinion, Morphic is not simply about having graphic elements answering events, as Roassal does. Morphic provides ways to build sophisticated UI (even if Morphic behaves poorly in comparison with state-of-the-art UI frameworks). Roassal is made to visualize and interact with data.
>
> As it is defined today, Roassal is not made to build sophisticated UI.
>
> Cheers,
> Alexandre
>
>
> On Sep 16, 2014, at 10:30 AM, Denis Kudriashov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Do you think Roassal can replace Morphic at all?
> >
>
> --
> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>
>
>
>
>

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

... [show rest of quote]

Sean P. DeNigris

Oct 29, 2014; 12:31pm

Re: Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph

Administrator

I gave up on zoomability (with the idea to revisit after Athens is integrated), but I hacked together an infinitely scrollable world, called ScrollableWorldMorph, which is in use in my LivingCode IDE prototype described (with loading instructions) at http://forum.world.st/Clickable-class-side-example-and-initialize-methods-in-Pharo-4-0-tp4785865p4786275.html

If you have any questions about LivingCode specifically, the conversation was moved to http://forum.world.st/LivingCode-was-Clickable-class-side-example-and-initialize-methods-in-Pharo-4-0-td4786411.html#a4786522

HTH

Cheers,
Sean

Dennis Schetinin

Oct 29, 2014; 2:21pm

Re: Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph

Thanks, very interesting!

Best regards,

Dennis Schetinin

2014-10-29 16:31 GMT+04:00 Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]>:

I gave up on zoomability (with the idea to revisit after Athens is
integrated), but I hacked together an infinitely scrollable world, called
ScrollableWorldMorph, which is in use in my LivingCode IDE prototype
described (with loading instructions) at
http://forum.world.st/Clickable-class-side-example-and-initialize-methods-in-Pharo-4-0-tp4785865p4786275.html

If you have any questions about LivingCode specifically, the conversation
was moved to
http://forum.world.st/LivingCode-was-Clickable-class-side-example-and-initialize-methods-in-Pharo-4-0-td4786411.html#a4786522

HTH

-----
Cheers,
Sean
--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Zoomable-Infinitely-scrollable-PasteupMorph-tp4778229p4787434.html

Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

... [show rest of quote]

stepharo

Nov 02, 2014; 2:08pm

Re: Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph

In reply to this post by Denis Kudriashov

Do you think Roassal can replace Morphic at all?

No

Stef

2014-09-16 20:07 GMT+04:00 Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]>:

In the word “submorph” there are two important parts. “sub” and “morph”. Roassal support subelements, but only one morph is around, the trachel morph that contains all the drawing.
Why staying in Morphic? Morphic does not scale well, does not have layout, and morphs are hardly composable with other morphs :-)

Cheers,
Alexandre

On Sep 16, 2014, at 7:13 AM, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sep 15, 2014, at 9:54 PM, "abergel [via Smalltalk]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Can you describe a bit more what you need? In Roassal, you do not have submorph, but do you really need them?
> Yes, I want to create a Self-like world that is also zoomable, so you could say the whole purpose is to have submorphs ;)
> Cheers,
> Sean
>

> View this message in context: Re: Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

... [show rest of quote]

... [show rest of quote]

stepharo

Nov 02, 2014; 2:11pm

Re: Zoomable & Infinitely scrollable PasteupMorph

In reply to this post by Sean P. DeNigris

> I gave up on zoomability (with the idea to revisit after Athens is
> integrated),

Athens is integrated. Now if the community does not help redefining the
drawnOn: methods using athens then it will not happen.

Stef

> but I hacked together an infinitely scrollable world, called
> ScrollableWorldMorph, which is in use in my LivingCode IDE prototype
> described (with loading instructions) at
> http://forum.world.st/Clickable-class-side-example-and-initialize-methods-in-Pharo-4-0-tp4785865p4786275.html
>
> If you have any questions about LivingCode specifically, the conversation
> was moved to
> http://forum.world.st/LivingCode-was-Clickable-class-side-example-and-initialize-methods-in-Pharo-4-0-td4786411.html#a4786522
>
> HTH
>
>
>
> -----
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Zoomable-Infinitely-scrollable-PasteupMorph-tp4778229p4787434.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>

... [show rest of quote]