connectivity to the croquet colloaborative Re: Object creation within Croquet...

On 7/31/07, Lawson English <[hidden email]> wrote:

Seems to connect to the collaborative ok on my Mac (OS X 10.4.10) ,
although the portals did not seem to work very well.

(My Mac connects to the net through a port-restricted NAT ADSL gateway.)

Hope that helps, David

David Corking wrote: Thanks. I maybe in that world right now, but unless there's more than
one person, how do you now for sure?

Lawson English wrote: Here's the thing: I select show my location from two different worlds:

KAT Demo and Simple (master) and here is what I find. If Im actually in
the world maintained by WIsconsin, my location should have a different
router address, no?:



<joinme><routerAddress>192.168.2.11:5910</routerAddress><routerId>c2be09189969d56cc3073ec4d256cb6d</routerId><routerName>WisconsinWorld</routerName><vpn>mainEntry</vpn></joinme>

<joinme><routerAddress>192.168.2.11:5910</routerAddress><routerId>c2be09189969d56cc3073ec4d256cb6d</routerId><routerName>WisconsinWorld</routerName><vpn>mainEntry</vpn></joinme>

Is there a design team or thread for how to add scripting to the client,
ala Lua and/or Python and/or Perl etc?

What should be scriptable by such an interface? How it should
accomidate/facilitate plug-ins?

And so on and so on and so forth?

*Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera... --spoken with best royal Yul Brynner accent

Lawson English wrote: ack totally the wrong forum sorry.

I'm using a router to connect to a cable modem to connect to the internet.

When I use the tools > What's My Location? menu item, I naturally get
the router ip address, which is useless.

I understand that I need to "forward" a port otu of hte router, and I
sort of understand how this is to be done. I'm just wondering, how can I
make sure that I am able to forward the correct port, and even when I
do, how can I ensure that I can pass the correct postcard info on to
someone else? Do I need to manually set the router and then change the
xml of the post card to reflect the ip address that the rest of the
world sees?

And how do I access an already existing world? At no time has the
standard KAT demo worked for me.


Thanks for any and all help that you can offer.

Lawson English.

If you are behind a NAT and you are connecting to an IP address on  
the public internet (eg: the Croquet Collaborative router) then you  
don't need to forward a port.  You only need to forward ports if you  
are running a Croquet router behind a NAT, and want others to be able  
to connect to your router.

Josh


On Aug 3, 2007, at 8:50 PM, Lawson English wrote:

What is the port, though?

And how do you create a postcard with a specific IP:port instead of
the (current and NATted) IP of the current machine?

-Kyle H

On 8/4/07, Joshua Gargus <[hidden email]> wrote:

Kyle Hamilton wrote:
> What is the port, though?
>
> And how do you create a postcard with a specific IP:port instead of
> the (current and NATted) IP of the current machine?
>
>  
>
and none of this addresses teh fact that I can evoke the KAT demo and
select the collaboration server and wait hours for the connection to be
made. I can see an occasional problem with the server popping up, but
never seeing the server at all, while others do, implies a problem at MY
end that I don't know how to fix, or even find.

I'm still unable to see another avatar over the internet. Neither via a
collaborative world or via someone's adhoc setup.

This is quite frustrating. DOES Croquet work over the internet at this
point?

Still no ability to access internet for me. That kinda limits Croquet's
utility for the masses vs other worlds like SL, currently.

Have you tried, for example, starting up the KAT demo world locally by erasing
the server name in the prompt and then connecting to that PC from another local
PC on the same LAN?  This might help to narrow down what the problem is.

David Faught wrote:
> Have you tried, for example, starting up the KAT demo world locally by erasing
> the server name in the prompt and then connecting to that PC from another local
> PC on the same LAN?  This might help to narrow down what the problem is.
>
>  
Even that may not be an easy option. All my computers are linked to a
router, and are not directly networked.

On 8/9/07, Lawson English <[hidden email]> wrote:
> David Faught wrote:
> > Have you tried, for example, starting up the KAT demo world locally by erasing
> > the server name in the prompt and then connecting to that PC from another local
> > PC on the same LAN?  This might help to narrow down what the problem is.
> >
> >
> Even that may not be an easy option. All my computers are linked to a
> router, and are not directly networked.

If you are using the KAT demo's method of connecting, the second
computer can specify the IP address or DNS name of the first to make
the connection.  Some of the other demo worlds use other methods of
connecting as outlined at
http://croquetconsortium.org/index.php/WAN/LAN%2C_Connecting_and_Discovery

David Faught wrote: All routers everywhere on the internet use the same ip as far as the
computers that hook to them are concerned. I don't know what this means
as far as trying to get two computers talking to each other. Maybe it
won't be an issue, or maybe it will

On 8/9/07, Lawson English <[hidden email]> wrote:
Uuhh, where did you get that?  It is not true.  I am a former Cisco
Certified Network Associate, which means I can spell Internet Protocol
and soothsay subnet masks.  By definition a router has at least 2 IP
addresses or it's not really a router.

I might guess that what you are referring to is the private
192.168.x.x local network address range that is behind many home-use
routers.  These typically have one IP address on the Internet side of
the router, but every such router has its own unique Internet-side
address, usually assigned by the ISP.  On the private LAN side, the
router has one address, for example 192.168.42.1, and each PC in the
private LAN has its own IP address within the 192.168.42.x range,
usually assigned by the router.

If 2 PCs or MACs or whatever are plugged into the same home router,
they are on the same local private network, each have a unique IP
address in the 192.168.42.x range, and refer to the router in their IP
configuration as their gateway at its address of 192.168.42.1.

To connect a second instance of the Croquet KAT demo to one that is
running locally on another machine, the second machine should specify
the unique IP address of the first machine to connect to.

If the 2 machines are at 2 different homes behind 2 different home-use
routers, each with their own private local network, the problem gets
harder and some messing around with the router configuration of the
first "host" machine is needed.

Does that help anything?

David explains clearly that if my pc is in a routed lan, my postcard
containing informations as the following cannot work

<joinme>
<routerAddress>192.168.1.33:1435</routerAddress>
<routerId>aa23515da45354a4d872c28730272971</routerId>
<routerName>Simple Demo World (3550-80B5784770)</routerName>
<vpn>mainEntry</vpn>
</joinme>

The question is then: what value the <routerAddress> have to contain to make
croquet working fine (connected to another croquet user) in internet ?

I sent to Lawson my postcard with the <routerAddress> value initialized with
the (dynamic ... not static ... but valid in that session) ip address assigned
by the internet services provider to my router during that session, as the
following

<joinme>
<routerAddress>87.17.101.193:1435</routerAddress>
<routerId>aa23515da45354a4d872c28730272971</routerId>
<routerName>Simple Demo World (3550-80B5784770)</routerName>
<vpn>mainEntry</vpn>
</joinme>

Then i invited Lawson to connect... but didnt work

Then i invited Lawson to cancel the port number from the <routerAddress> so the
postcard was as the following

<joinme>
<routerAddress>87.17.101.193</routerAddress>
<routerId>aa23515da45354a4d872c28730272971</routerId>
<routerName>Simple Demo World (3550-80B5784770)</routerName>
<vpn>mainEntry</vpn>
</joinme>

but didnt work.

So i think i have to set the router in this following mode:
assign to the port 1435, the internal ip address of my pc (192.168.1.33), then
try to connect with the <routerAddress> value set to the ip address assigned
from isp to my router (87.17.101.193).

Another solution could be: can set the <routerAddress> value with the mac
address of the ethernet card installed on the pc; this address is worldwide
unique so no doubt on the (routered) pc want connect to

But i dont know if this solution is feasible.

Also me waiting for a solutions.

Thanks

A.G.

What you are describing sounds like 2 separate private networks with 2 separate
routers, with each one doing NAT translation.  NAT translation allows multiple
machines in a private LAN to appear to the Internet on a single public address
with the router keeping straight which conversation belongs to which local
machine.

The router port forwarding that you describe might work, but there is no
current Croquet support for NAT traversal that I am aware of, although it has
been talked about.  The current Croquet Internet connection methods need the
first "host" machine to have a public Internet address.

This was one of the big reasons for the Croquet Collaborative to put up a
widely available Croquet world.  I have not personally used it for some time
because it took 5 to 10 minutes to syncronize my slow machine with the
Collaborative. Also the projects that I have been working on did not lend
themselves to development in that environment, although that could change.  Yet
another point about the Collaborative is that 2 of the primary people behind it
are now working for Qwaq and keeping very busy trying to be a commercial
success, so they don't have much time to do anything else.

I apologize if this is documented somewhere, but what is the port footprint of a Croquet connection?  It sounds like 1435/udp is one of these ports, but are there others?  I would think that 4222/tcp and/or 4223/tcp would need to be forwarded as well to be able to use jabber chat.

I believe you are correct about Jabber's requirements. Please refer to
http://croquetconsortium.org/index.php/WAN/LAN%2C_Connecting_and_Discovery for
a discussion of the different connection techniques currently available.

There is no one Croquet connection or connection type. Several of the
different demos use different strategies as discussed in the link above and
therefore have different port requirements.  And there are a few more yet to be
developed.