rails niceties equivalents?
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Re: rails niceties equivalents?
 
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The point is not that seaside does it.
The point is that people build another project whose goal is to support an easier bridge between seaside and their favorite DB to support CRUD. From a marketing standpoint, this is really nice to be the best in a niche but after a while successful companies tends to also propose solution in the other segments so that customers can find a solution even if suboptimal but they stay with them and this is the same with seaside. So from a community standpoint this is counter productive to kill feedback that way. Better is: yes we need that and we strongly encourage you to do it, we are focusing on other points. Stef On May 17, 2009, at 9:15 PM, Philippe Marschall wrote: >> >> I definitely agree that lack of a coherent persistence strategy is a >> big problem, though (one that I've run into myself). > > Out of the scope of Seaside, sorry. > > Cheers > Philippe > _____________ _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: rails niceties equivalents?
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In reply to this post by James Robertson-7
Unless that has actually happened, this is purely theoretical. And for
"portable across multiple Smalltalks" I have actually written code that other people made run on a lot of Smalltalk dialects. It's easily said but reality is different. Cheers Philippe 2009/5/18 James Robertson <[hidden email]>: > Actually, Glorp is open source, and portable across multiple Smalltalks - I > recall reading that the Instantiations folks intend to make sure that it > works in VA Smalltalk. While I don't expect the Seaside team to build any > layers between Seaside and Glorp, it would certainly be possible for someone > else to do it - in a cross Smalltalk, portable fashion. > > James Robertson > Cincom Smalltalk Product Evangelist > http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/blog/blogView > Talk Small and Carry a Big Class Library > <snip> > > > 2. Database access, there's no portable way of doing it. So either we > write our own database abstraction layer (yay) or we accept that > database access again is not part of it (I can see people being > totally happy with that) and that each and every tutorial will do > database access in a different way (yay again). > > > Cheers > Philippe > _______________________________________________ > seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > > _______________________________________________ > seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: rails niceties equivalents?
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In reply to this post by Philippe Marschall
OK, one piece of the puzzle. The other missing one is "how do I scale a Seaside application"?
People claim to have worked it out for themselves, but nobody is writing it up as a ready to use recipe. There's no point in writing an app that can't easily scale to a few hundred users. FWIW, Phillippe, you've just about convinced me to unsubscribe and give up on Seaside. Clearly its never going to fit my "small but growing business web site/shop/information system" use case because its developers clearly don't want it to. On May 17, 2009, at 12:15 PM, Philippe Marschall wrote: Not anymore, instead of writing an awful lot of mails that don't get _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: rails niceties equivalents?
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> OK, one piece of the puzzle. The other missing one is "how do I > scale a Seaside application"? > > People claim to have worked it out for themselves, but nobody is > writing it up as a ready to use recipe. > > There's no point in writing an app that can't easily scale to a few > hundred users. > > FWIW, Phillippe, you've just about convinced me to unsubscribe and > give up on Seaside. Clearly its never going to fit my "small but > growing business web site/shop/information system" use case because > its developers clearly don't want it to. This is totally wrong. Philippe is just one core developer of seaside and often clearly overnegative. I think that the message sent by julian is clear. Now the main point that we can get from philippe butcher prose is that if you want to see that happen you should do it instead of reading mails: and on this point I agree :). I do not see why you could not be able to build scaffolding DB and plug that to seaside. Stef _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Eagle Offshore
> > FWIW, Phillippe, you've just about convinced me to unsubscribe and > give up on Seaside. Clearly its never going to fit my "small but > growing business web site/shop/information system" use case because > its developers clearly don't want it to. > For what it's worth, according to Google Analytics, in the last 72 hours our Squeak/Seaside website http://www.bountifulbaby.com has served 33,153 page views. It's running on a single Mac Mini, and hasn't even had a hiccup. I'm not at all worried about scalability, because I know I can scale it to any size I want to. 33,153 page views isn't a small amount of traffic. But it's also not a huge amount (like eBay or Google or Facebook, or whatever). But I personally think that with the help of GemStone, I could scale it to those traffice sizes, or even larger, if it was needed. Nevin _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: rails niceties equivalents?
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In reply to this post by Eagle Offshore
Eagle Offshore wrote:
> OK, one piece of the puzzle. The other missing one is "how do I scale > a Seaside application"? > > People claim to have worked it out for themselves, but nobody is > writing it up as a ready to use recipe. > > There's no point in writing an app that can't easily scale to a few > hundred users. You know of course of Ramon Leon's writeups on the issue? * http://onsmalltalk.com/scaling-seaside-more-advanced-load-balancing-and-publishing * http://onsmalltalk.com/scaling-seaside-redux-enter-the-penguin The first URL refers to Avi Bryant's scaling tips: * http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/seaside/2007-January/010215.html frank _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Julian Fitzell-2
Hi!
Julian Fitzell wrote: > what they wanted a request handler for the former to look like. And I > think being able to easily develop stateless rails-style apps with > full REST URLs but using the Canvas API would be a huge win for many > people. Both I and Giovanni Corriga started messing with putting the Seaside Canvas into HttpView2, using two different approaches - Giovanni made a new one and I tried "duck raping" :) the one in Seaside (actually seemed quite doable). One thing that I do think is quite nice in HttpView2 is the idea of mapping "directory names" into messages and letting the view objects form a parent-child tree on the server. To be concrete: /account/settings Will send #account to the top view object, which typically checks authentication (so all URLs beginning with "/account" will do that check in one place) and then handles dispatch over to an AccountView sending #settings to it. The AccountView typically implements #settings by handing it over to a SettingsView sending #default to it (kinda like index.html). Well, just wanted to mention how HV2 works in this respect as some "fuel on the fire" - most people probably doesn't know. :) > How best to support semi-RESTful URLs while still maintaining full > session state and the ability to write complex control flows is still > a matter of much debate and a prime area for further research and > experimentation. But that doesn't mean someone can't move to support > the two separately in the meantime. Indeed. regards, Göran _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Frank Shearar
An nobody mention it, I find sandstonedb is a nice "rails" inspiration
(done by Ramon Leon). It does save your object trees on files. http://onsmalltalk.com/sandstonedb-simple-activerecord-style-persistence-in-squeak I think Sebastien did an extension to make it work on several images and lastly, Nico Schwarz has written a GOODS adaptor for SandstoneDb allowing to hook up multiple squeak images to a single store. http://onsmalltalk.com/2009-05-14-sandstonedb-goods-adaptor http://smalltalkthoughts.blogspot.com/2009/05/sandstonegoods.html I think this kind of dev deserves tests and comments ;) Cédrick squeaksource links: http://www.squeaksource.com/SandstoneDb.html http://www.squeaksource.com/SandstoneExtention.html http://www.squeaksource.com/SDGoodsStore.html _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: rails niceties equivalents?
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In reply to this post by Eagle Offshore
If it's useful to you to know, right now I'm able to
scale horizontally.
cheers,
sebastian
_______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: rails niceties equivalents?
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In reply to this post by cedreek
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> I think Sebastien did an extension to make it work on several images > and lastly, Nico Schwarz has written a GOODS adaptor for SandstoneDb > allowing to hook up multiple squeak images to a single store. > Well kind of. It was required for my business so I've done something to scale horizontally but not for sandstoneDb (sorry Ramon :) Anyway I'm using aggregates pretty much the same as sandstone (thanks Ramon for inspiration). You can have the sandstone experience with this but horizontally scalable. cheers, sebastian _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: rails niceties equivalents?
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In reply to this post by Eagle Offshore
We have deployed Seaside (2.8) for our Support resolutions app:
and we've had no scalability issues. On Smalltalk web apps more generally, the entire Cincom Smalltalk website is Smalltalk powered, and the only scaling issues we ever had were due to bad code on my part - I was able to patch those on the fly with caching solutions. The same approach ought to work for a Seaside app; if you used a database back end (using Web Velocity, for instance), you could have your app cache results, only hitting the database when there were actual changes to deal with. James Robertson Cincom Smalltalk Product Evangelist Talk Small and Carry a Big Class Library On May 18, 2009, at 1:37 AM, Eagle Offshore wrote:
_______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Eagle Offshore
On May 17, 2009, at 10:37 PM, Eagle Offshore wrote:
> .... The other missing one is "how do I scale a Seaside application"? One answer is to use GemStone: thousands of VMs sharing terabytes of data. > People claim to have worked it out for themselves, but nobody is > writing it up as a ready to use recipe. I'm sorry you haven't gotten the message; we've certainly been trying to write it up. See the tutorial at http://seaside.gemstone.com/ tutorial. Also, we've got a couple blogs (http://programminggems.wordpress.com/ and http://gemstonesoup.wordpress.com/), a web site (http://seaside.gemstone.com ), and present at conferences and users groups. What more could we do to get your attention? > There's no point in writing an app that can't easily scale to a few > hundred users. Unless, of course, your app is one that is aimed at a small users base. If someone offered me US$100K to write a Seaside app that would be used by only 10 users, I wouldn't tell them that there's no point. I'd scope the project and estimate whether it could be done for that price. James Foster _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Sebastian Sastre-2
Well kind of. It was required for my business so I've done something to scale horizontally but not for sandstoneDb (sorry Ramon :) No problem man, we all have our own itches to scratch. I've said several times, even in my SandstoneDb post, that if I need to scale bigger I'll use Gemstone. SandstoneDb was meant for smaller projects and prototypes. It runs my blog and does what I need. Ramon Leon http://onsmalltalk.com _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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