[squeak-dev] [ANN] A new anniversary without 3.10

I announce today 3.10 pass another month into Limbo.

Yes,  Pope don't close it , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbo#Modern_era .

When I go to www.squeak.org , don't find it.
What is still missing ? I think do all people say I should do.

I hope Pavel, Craig and the all people working on future Squeak don't have
this long delay until his work go public.

No people interested in FunSqueak , except my friends Jerome and Klaus...

And rumors in child machine about no Squeak into...

Maybe is me, but seeing last night first chapter of "The Sarah Connors
Chronicles" here drive me to think no hope to win.

Edgar

Hi Edgar,

I'm also waiting for 3.10 to that we the web team can put it on the
website, but I just checked that Mac VM is still missing:
http://ftp.squeak.org/3.10/mac/.

Also, for Unix/Linux there is only Linux VM available. Shall we go only
for Linux for now and later add other Unix VMs?

Best regards
Janko


Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
--
Janko Mivšek
AIDA/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si

El 5/7/08 8:40 AM, "Janko Mivšek" <[hidden email]> escribió:

> I'm also waiting for 3.10 to that we the web team can put it on the
> website, but I just checked that Mac VM is still missing:
> http://ftp.squeak.org/3.10/mac/.

I waiting for John word about if he have some newer as 3.9 VM version,
suppose I could put a link to this and when/if he send the info, upload a
new one

About Unix VM, yes, we could add later when Ian put on his site.
Or add a Readme directing people to his site

Edgar

2008/5/7 Edgar J. De Cleene <[hidden email]>:
I have plans to move Gjallar 3.8 to 3.10 and make use of it's new cool
tools & features.
Actually there are already a script for installing it on 3.10. Just
not tested yet.

Bryce adopting Exupery to 3.10.
There also Keith pushing things with Installer/Sake ,  Matthew working
on DS & making Traits (de)installable.

Give me one reason why we should feel abandoned and in despair? :)

>  Edgar
>


--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

The Squeak 3.8.18beta3U.app.zip   found on my idisk or FTP  is the  
most current

http://smalltalkconsulting.com/squeak.html

On May 7, 2008, at 4:50 AM, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:

--
=
=
=
========================================================================
John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>
Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
=
=
=
========================================================================

El 5/7/08 11:11 AM, "Igor Stasenko" <[hidden email]> escribió:

Well , is just me and my immediate reality ( no related to Squeak)
Glad new blood care.

Edgar

>>>>> "Edgar" == Edgar J De Cleene <[hidden email]> writes:

Edgar> I announce today 3.10 pass another month into Limbo.
Edgar> Yes,  Pope don't close it , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbo#Modern_era .

Edgar> When I go to www.squeak.org , don't find it.
Edgar> What is still missing ? I think do all people say I should do.

This would be my question as well.  What *is* missing?

Is it that we have all the pieces, but the website is not updated?

Is it that we have all the pieces, but they're not in the right place
on the website?

Is it that we're missing some of the pieces?

If we're missing things, who would know how to get them?

--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<[hidden email]> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion

Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
> This would be my question as well.  What *is* missing?

Short answer? The release manager.

Cheers,
   - Andreas

> Is it that we have all the pieces, but the website is not updated?
>
> Is it that we have all the pieces, but they're not in the right place
> on the website?
>
> Is it that we're missing some of the pieces?
>
> If we're missing things, who would know how to get them?
>

Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
> I announce today 3.10 pass another month into Limbo.
>
>  
but DateAndTime now seconds still returns a fraction.

who abandoned who?

Keith

[Yeah, I know, I've been away for a while.]

> From: Randal L. Schwartz
> This would be my question as well.  What *is* missing?

A supportive community pulling in the direction of a release.  Instead,
there is a fragmented community who want many different things, arguably
few of which are suitable for the coherent, image-based exquisite
personal computing platform which tempted so many of us into Smalltalk
in the first place.  This makes the release manager's job so hard that
it is a job nobody wants to take - it's a poisoned chalice.  Whoever
produces the next release of Squeak will get more criticism than praise,
because some people's favourite features will have been left out of the
image while others' least favourite features will have come in.

Anyone want the job?

                - Peter

>>>>> "Andreas" == Andreas Raab <[hidden email]> writes:

Andreas> Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
>> This would be my question as well.  What *is* missing?

Andreas> Short answer? The release manager.

OK, but that release manager will be asking the same question
I'm now asking.  So how do I get the answer?

If Edgar is complaining, there must be a specific thing he thinks is missing.
That's what I want to know, so I can come up to speed on the issue.

In other words, how do we know we aren't done with 3.10 yet?

And yes, this *is* your elected board trying to get a handle on the problem.

--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<[hidden email]> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion

Randal L. Schwartz wrote:

> If Edgar is complaining, there must be a specific thing he thinks is missing.
> That's what I want to know, so I can come up to speed on the issue.
>
> In other words, how do we know we aren't done with 3.10 yet?
>
> And yes, this *is* your elected board trying to get a handle on the problem.

I see just OSX VM missing and John McIntosh just replied with the
location of this VM. So, the release team needs to place this file to
ftp server in 3.10 directory and then we the web team will update the
www.squeak.org. Simple as that.

Best regards
Janko


--
Janko Mivšek
AIDA/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si

I wonder if we aren't having a little terminology trouble here.  On the
one hand the term 'release manager' in most communities indicates a job
held across multiple releases, perhaps for years.  However the closest
we have come to that in Squeak in recent years is someone who takes
responsibility for a given release, or maybe for two in a row.

The closest available candidates for 3.10 are Ralph Johnson and Edgar
himself.

However perhaps Andreas was meaning to spur a discussion of having a
more permanent release manager.  I'm going to assume that was the case
and offer my opinion.

I'm all for someone volunteering to be a long term release manager.
However the pool of available reasonable applicants seems rather small.
I would like to suggest a compromise measure.  Let's continue as we have
been with a new release team for each release (possibly built from
previous release teams) with a release team leader specific to each
release.

However I would like to suggest that the Board pick one of its members
to serve in a supervisory capacity over the entire release process.  I
don't see this as a job with much work most of the time.  It would
largely be composed of watching the progress of current release(s),
offering assistance where needed, and prodding the various involved
parties when necessary.

Now the Board technically only serves for a single year at a time and so
this 'release supervisor' could change from year to year.  But it's not
commonly the case that the Board membership changes completely each
year, so in practice it is possible for such a person to serve in this
capacity for multiple years and versions.

Ken

On Wed, 2008-05-07 at 13:29 -0700, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:

I valorate this a lot, and is exactly was I meant with some of my mails about this topic.

Thanks Randal.

El 5/7/08 5:36 PM, "Janko Mivšek" <[hidden email]> escribió:

> I see just OSX VM missing and John McIntosh just replied with the
> location of this VM. So, the release team needs to place this file to
> ftp server in 3.10 directory and then we the web team will update the
> www.squeak.org. Simple as that.
>
> Best regards
> Janko


I still don't get this mail, as soon I have test the John VM , and then put
the files into the ftp.

If any relevant feedback arise, I send mail to he , but I bet no weird
things as Ian don't have for his.

Edgar


 

>>>>> "Ken" == Ken Causey <[hidden email]> writes:

Ken> However I would like to suggest that the Board pick one of its members
Ken> to serve in a supervisory capacity over the entire release process.  I
Ken> don't see this as a job with much work most of the time.  It would
Ken> largely be composed of watching the progress of current release(s),
Ken> offering assistance where needed, and prodding the various involved
Ken> parties when necessary.

Well, at the moment, that'd be me, because I opened my mouth. :)

Hence, the questions.

What needs to be done?

Who can do it?

What needs to be cleared up?

--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<[hidden email]> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion

Igor Stasenko writes:
 > Bryce adopting Exupery to 3.10.
 > There also Keith pushing things with Installer/Sake ,  Matthew working
 > on DS & making Traits (de)installable.

Exupery works on 3.10. There's no problems there.

The performance tests were showing incorrect numbers due to the
floating point bug which is now fixed and posted to Mantis.

There's a lockup running the test suite. That's due to a bug in
process termination and Delay>>wait's ifCurtailed. I could easily side
step that bug by adjusting the delays in the test slightly but I'd
rather find a proper fix. Seems silly to waste the chance of fixing it
given it's easy to reproduce. Chasing such a bug in a production
system is painful.

Monticello 1.5 can't load FFI, so I can't use the squeak-dev images
but the base 3.10 images are fine. Loading Exupery is fine, building
an Exupery development image on top of squeak-dev breaks.

Bryce

On Wed, 2008-05-07 at 14:30 -0700, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: Good, wonderful.

> Hence, the questions.
>
> What needs to be done?

I'm using 3.8 as my example of a good release.  For 3.10 we need to

1.  Populate any incomplete platform support directories.

2.  Delete temporary files (note the wget-log files).

3.  Fix the 3.10 release zip:

currently while the zip file itself is properly named
Squeak3.10-7159-basic.zip the contents of the file are named

Squeak3dot10.7159.changes
Squeak3dot10.7159.image

The zip should be recreated with consistent naming.

4.  Update the Squeak.org website to reflect 3.10 as the current stable
release.

5.  I feel I'm forgetting something but I can't think of anything else
at the moment.

> Who can do it?

Who 'can' or who 'should'?  I guess at this point really it's a matter
of 'can'.  Can for most of the steps includes just about any recent
release team member (including most of 3.7, 3.8, 3.9, 3.10) and all
box-admins team members including myself.

In the interest of expediency I'm willing to do as much as possible
myself if Edgar wouldn't be insulted by my further interference.  I can
take care of steps 1 (with assistance from VM developers), 2, 3, and
maybe even 4 although I will probably need to coordinate with Janko or
other webteam members.  And I guess I could even take care of 5 if I
remember what it is. ;)

> What needs to be cleared up?

Uhm, isn't this the same as the first question?

Ken

>>>>> "Ken" == Ken Causey <[hidden email]> writes:


Ken> In the interest of expediency I'm willing to do as much as possible
Ken> myself if Edgar wouldn't be insulted by my further interference.  I can
Ken> take care of steps 1 (with assistance from VM developers), 2, 3, and
Ken> maybe even 4 although I will probably need to coordinate with Janko or
Ken> other webteam members.  And I guess I could even take care of 5 if I
Ken> remember what it is. ;)

In the interest of expediency, please do as you've suggested.  The plan
looks great.  We can tidy up anything else when the next wave of complaint
comes in.


--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<[hidden email]> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion

> Monticello 1.5 can't load FFI, so I can't use the squeak-dev images
> but the base 3.10 images are fine. Loading Exupery is fine, building
> an Exupery development image on top of squeak-dev breaks.
>
> Bryce
>  
MC1.5 can load FFI,

Installer install: 'Packages'.
Installer sake addPackage: 'FFI'; install.

Keith