[squeak-dev] [Squeak-dev Images] About the different flavors

>
>>> From a newcomers perspective - your images showcase whats possible from a
>>
>> developers point of view in Squeak. My early experiences of Squeak put me
>> off for several years - it was an eyesore that only a mother could love
>> (sorry to be brutal). As a professional programmer used to other tools like
>> Eclipse, Visual Studio, Dolphin, Visual Age - the bar is quite high and
>> Squeak struggles to attract new blood in its default incarnation.
>
> to me that Squeak do not attract that kind of programmer is a fetaure, not a
> bug (sorry to be brutal)

> Victor Rodriguez a écrit :
>>
>> "That" kind of programmer?  What other kind of programmer is there?
>
> none, of course, if you say so.
>
> Stef (not a programmer, just the random idiot)
>
>
>

>
> ok I see I did hurt some feelings so let's be a bit clearer...
>
> there are many serious environments for serious programmers doing
> sierious jobs for serious reasons. but there are not many things like
> Squeak, both well grounded in quality, fun and lively, even in the
> look: childish, not serious at all, but tremendously interesting and a
> real catalyst for creativity and experimentation.
>
> so when I read over and over people complaining that it does not look
> serious enough, my feeling is: why, how come these people are doing
> Squeak in the first place ? can't they leave us alone having fun with
> our non-serious, colorful, clumsy, unclean mess of great software ?
>
> some people want to kill morphic, others want only to kill etoys,
> others yet what to clean up everything with weapons of mass
> refactoring, more people just want to get rid of all colors and kill
> the mouse, which they did (you know, the animated mouse head with
> following eyes we had up to 3.8, which is the first thing my young
> children see when I work in squeak; and sometime I let them play with
> it).
>
> I know I'm pushing the thing too far here and that things are not so
> simple. but at times I feel the need to state publicly that among all
> you people serious and professional (who I actually do respect, with
> your own expectations), among *us* there are people like me who like
> Squeak as it is, messy and fun and colorful.
>
> the sentence I (over-?)reacted to was the following:
>
>  "As a professional programmer used to other tools like Eclipse,
> Visual Studio, Dolphin, Visual Age - the bar is quite high and Squeak
> struggles to attract new blood in its default incarnation."
>
> see the bits in it:
> "professional programmer" ... so what ? any better than me ?
> "used to other tools like Eclipse, Visual Studio, Dolphin, Visual Age"
> ... so why change ?
> "the bar is quite high" ... because we all have to do the same things
> in the same way, with the same interface and the same look and feel ?
> "Squeak struggles to attract new blood" .. ah yes I forgot, we are in
> a cruel world were struggle and competition rule, it's a war actually;
> Squeak needs more blood else, else, else what ? what kind of blood
> should we perfuse ?
>
> ... so, no personal attack intented, and with all respect due to its
> author who I do not know at all, this sentence summarize a lot of what
> I think heads Squeak to the direction of insignifiance: pushing it in
> the Right Tracks, dumb, grey, boring and professional. for what ? who
> is going to win anything when all colors are gone ?
>
> Squeak is an amazing, unique environment demonstrating a very unique
> way to do programming. if it was not unique, I would not care that it
> becomes a standard development tool for serious people. but since it
> is unique, I feel compelled to answer back when what I feel is part of
> its paradigm, nature, originality is threatened. but of course that's
> just me.
>
>
> that's it, sorry for the noise...
>
>
> Stef
>
>
>
>