[squeak-dev] [Squeak-dev Images] About the different flavors
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Re: [squeak-dev] Re: [Squeak-dev Images] About the different flavors
 
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El 7/4/08 11:17 AM, "Herbert König" <[hidden email]> escribió: >I have a neural network watching over > And neither FunSqueak nor Edgar's various SqueakLight's can be used > for this work. I look into them regularly, I'm fond of the ideas but > until now every time I tried to make one of them work for me I failed. I guess you wish a solution , but I don't remember you send mail about your needs and which parts of Squeak 3.6 you miss. FunSqueak is a show of things we have , I guess having older projects could disturb serious work (it's too fun :=) Original SqueakLight needs me have your feedback as is "hand made" and only could used for code , but not for .morph , .pr or some Squeak 3.8 and newer originated. If I was contacted , could made a .rts (run time system) in the 3.8 to 5 mb range. SqueakLight II is still alpha and in heavy development. I plan to have a modular system which could grow to user needs using existing code. I say in other mail I have the Universes of 3.10 (888 combinations of UPackage and Uversion) , polishing the loading mechanism now. And re-load of things we have in 3.9. I wish know which things 3.6 have and was essential to you, so I could investigate how to solve. Feedback is a must. Edgar |
[squeak-dev] Squeak/Seaside on a no-GUI remote host
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In reply to this post by Igor Stasenko
I have shell (ssh) access to a Debian host that has a DNS-able
address, but no X-server. The little I've done in Squeak has all been from the GUI, which depends on X or a similar console GUI, which I don't have access to. I mean, *theoretically,* I could run X, but I seriously doubt I could get it to display on my machine, which lives on a private net in a residential setting. It must be possible to develop for Squeak/Seaside under these conditions, but it's not clear to me what the best way would be. Clues? -jmc |
Re: [squeak-dev] Squeak/Seaside on a no-GUI remote host
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On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 1:00 PM, John Chandler <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I have shell (ssh) access to a Debian host that has a DNS-able > address, but no X-server. The little I've done in Squeak has all been > from the GUI, which depends on X or a similar console GUI, which I > don't have access to. I mean, *theoretically,* I could run X, but I > seriously doubt I could get it to display on my machine, which lives > on a private net in a residential setting. > > It must be possible to develop for Squeak/Seaside under these > conditions, but it's not clear to me what the best way would be. > Clues? Install the RFBServer package. This lets you use VNC to use the Squeak GUI remotely, and with much better performance than you would have gotten from X. Avi |
Re: [squeak-dev] Squeak/Seaside on a no-GUI remote host
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In reply to this post by John Chandler-3
On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 10:00 PM, John Chandler <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I have shell (ssh) access to a Debian host that has a DNS-able > address, but no X-server. The little I've done in Squeak has all been > from the GUI, which depends on X or a similar console GUI, which I > don't have access to. I mean, *theoretically,* I could run X, but I > seriously doubt I could get it to display on my machine, which lives > on a private net in a residential setting. > > It must be possible to develop for Squeak/Seaside under these > conditions, but it's not clear to me what the best way would be. > Clues? What I do when I have a remote image that needs to be taken care of is run Xvnc on the server and then just vnc. But as I mostly do seaside I develop locally and when I'm done I put the changes on a ftp server through monticello. I have this in the image as a class method: updateFromRepository | repository fileNames sortedFileNames lastVersion | repository _ MCFtpRepository host: 'hostname:portnumber' directory: 'mc-trunk' user: 'username' password: 'password'. fileNames _ repository allFileNames. sortedFileNames _ fileNames asSortedCollection sortBlock: [ :a :b | (('Surveyor-RHE.*.mcz' match: a) and: ['Surveyor-RHE.*.mcz' match: b]) ifTrue: [ ((a subStrings: '.') second asInteger) > ((b subStrings: '.') second asInteger) ] ifFalse: [ a > b ] ]. lastVersion _ sortedFileNames detect: [:ea | 'Surveyor-RHE.*.mcz' match: ea ] ifNone: [ ^ nil "umm... we are headless..." ]. repository readStreamForFileNamed: lastVersion do: [ :s | MczInstaller installStream: s reset ] and then, I have an update-sv.sq file with: SVMain updateFromRepository notNil ifTrue: [SVConnectionPool initialize. (SmalltalkImage current) snapshot: true andQuit: true ] ifFalse: [ (SmalltalkImage current) snapshot: false andQuit: true ]. and an update-sv.sh file with: #!/bin/bash killall vncserver vncconfig squeak Xvnc sleep 2 killall -KILL vncserver vncconfig squeak Xvnc rm -f /tmp/.X1-lock -R /tmp/.X11-unix/X1 -R cp base/surveyor.* . vncserver TSPRE=`ls --full-time --numeric surveyor.2.image | awk '{ print $6 " " $7 }'` ./squeak -memory 115m -mmap 115m -nosound -display :1 surveyor.2.image /usr/local/squeak/update-sv.sq TSPOST=`ls --full-time --numeric surveyor.2.image | awk '{ print $6 " " $7 }'` if [ "$TSPRE" = "$TSPOST" ]; then echo Update failed. else echo "Update successful; remember to restart it." fi killall -KILL vncserver vncconfig Xvnc rm -f /tmp/.X1-lock /tmp/.X11-unix/X1 -R So the bash script copies a base image, calls the squeak script that in turn looks for the biggest monticello version in the respository, applies it, and the bash script does a bit of a check. Yes, It's rather rough and crude and may eat servers for lunch :) -- Ragnar |
Re: [squeak-dev] Re: [Squeak-dev Images] About the different flavors
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In reply to this post by Edgar J. De Cleene
Hello Edgar,
EJDC> Feedback is a must. point taken, will try again and document problems. -- Cheers, Herbert |
Re: [squeak-dev] Re: [Squeak-dev Images] About the different flavors
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On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 7:19 AM, Herbert König <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello Edgar, Same here; where is the best place to submit things we find? Mantis? As a start, try copying or pasting some text into a workspace in SqueakLightII.7188! Apparantly ByteString>>utf8ToSqueak is not understood! What about questions around "how" to do something? The wiki: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6056? I really like the idea of a "small, modular Squeak," but after YEARS I can FINALLY start from a current dev image and load the other packages I want and need, and, well, I'm slightly hesitant to try to get everything working (in SqueakLightII)! Rob |
Re: [squeak-dev] Squeak/Seaside on a no-GUI remote host
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In reply to this post by Avi Bryant-2
On Jul 4, 2008, at 10:16 PM, Avi Bryant wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 1:00 PM, John Chandler <[hidden email]> > wrote: >> I have shell (ssh) access to a Debian host that has a DNS-able >> address, but no X-server. The little I've done in Squeak has all >> been >> from the GUI, which depends on X or a similar console GUI, which I >> don't have access to. I mean, *theoretically,* I could run X, but I >> seriously doubt I could get it to display on my machine, which lives >> on a private net in a residential setting. >> >> It must be possible to develop for Squeak/Seaside under these >> conditions, but it's not clear to me what the best way would be. >> Clues? > > Install the RFBServer package. This lets you use VNC to use the > Squeak GUI remotely, and with much better performance than you would > have gotten from X. > > Avi > When you say RFBServer, you are speaking of vnc, correct? Debian doesn't seem to have a package called RFBserver, but vnc does refer in docs, comments, and source filenames to the concept of a remote file buffer. I've run vnc before, and it runs great once the config problems are fixed. Right at the moment I'm finding this one (having launched Xvnc with the vncserver script): failed to set default font path '' Fatal server error: could not open default font 'fixed' which makes me think I may be missing a font package of some kind. Maybe vnc assumes the existence of an X server. I'll keep waving my machete around at these jungle-y tendrils, and meanwhile encourage those inclined to shower me with clues to do so. And, re: On Jul 4, 2008, at 10:24 PM, Ragnar Hojland Espinosa wrote: > What I do when I have a remote image that needs to be taken care of is > run Xvnc on the server and then just vnc. But as I mostly do seaside I > develop locally and when I'm done I put the changes on a ftp server > through monticello. I have this in the image as a class method: > > updateFromRepository > | repository fileNames sortedFileNames lastVersion | > > repository _ MCFtpRepository > host: 'hostname:portnumber' > directory: 'mc-trunk' > [etc.] Does this require a Squeak image running with some relationship to a GUI, even if it's vnc and nobody's viewing it? I guess there must be some way to launch Squeak other than clicking on its icon, but, and I find this a strange thing to say, I don't think I've ever done it any other way. -jmc |
Re: [squeak-dev] Squeak/Seaside on a no-GUI remote host
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In reply to this post by Ragnar Hojland Espinosa-2
On Jul 4, 2008, at 10:24 PM, Ragnar Hojland Espinosa wrote: > On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 10:00 PM, John Chandler <[hidden email]> > wrote: >> I have shell (ssh) access to a Debian host that has a DNS-able >> address, but no X-server. The little I've done in Squeak has all >> been >> from the GUI, which depends on X or a similar console GUI, which I >> don't have access to. I mean, *theoretically,* I could run X, but I >> seriously doubt I could get it to display on my machine, which lives >> on a private net in a residential setting. >> >> It must be possible to develop for Squeak/Seaside under these >> conditions, but it's not clear to me what the best way would be. >> Clues? > > What I do when I have a remote image that needs to be taken care of is > run Xvnc on the server and then just vnc. But as I mostly do seaside I > develop locally and when I'm done I put the changes on a ftp server > through monticello. I have this in the image as a class method: > > updateFromRepository > | repository fileNames sortedFileNames lastVersion | > > repository _ MCFtpRepository > host: 'hostname:portnumber' > directory: 'mc-trunk' > user: 'username' > password: 'password'. > fileNames _ repository allFileNames. > > sortedFileNames _ fileNames asSortedCollection sortBlock: [ :a :b | > (('Surveyor-RHE.*.mcz' match: a) and: ['Surveyor-RHE.*.mcz' > match: b]) > ifTrue: [ ((a subStrings: '.') second asInteger) > ((b subStrings: > '.') second asInteger) ] > ifFalse: [ a > b ] ]. > > lastVersion _ sortedFileNames detect: [:ea | 'Surveyor-RHE.*.mcz' > match: ea ] ifNone: [ ^ nil "umm... we are headless..." ]. > repository readStreamForFileNamed: lastVersion do: [ :s | > MczInstaller installStream: s reset ] > > > and then, I have an update-sv.sq file with: > > SVMain updateFromRepository notNil > ifTrue: [SVConnectionPool initialize. (SmalltalkImage current) > snapshot: true andQuit: true ] > ifFalse: [ (SmalltalkImage current) snapshot: false andQuit: > true ]. > > > and an update-sv.sh file with: > > #!/bin/bash > killall vncserver vncconfig squeak Xvnc > sleep 2 > killall -KILL vncserver vncconfig squeak Xvnc > rm -f /tmp/.X1-lock -R /tmp/.X11-unix/X1 -R > > cp base/surveyor.* . > vncserver > TSPRE=`ls --full-time --numeric surveyor.2.image | awk '{ print $6 > " " $7 }'` > ./squeak -memory 115m -mmap 115m -nosound -display :1 surveyor.2.image > /usr/local/squeak/update-sv.sq > TSPOST=`ls --full-time --numeric surveyor.2.image | awk '{ print $6 > " " $7 }'` > > if [ "$TSPRE" = "$TSPOST" ]; > then > echo Update failed. > else > echo "Update successful; remember to restart it." > fi > > killall -KILL vncserver vncconfig Xvnc > rm -f /tmp/.X1-lock /tmp/.X11-unix/X1 -R > > > So the bash script copies a base image, calls the squeak script that > in turn looks for the biggest monticello version in the respository, > applies it, and the bash script does a bit of a check. > > Yes, It's rather rough and crude and may eat servers for lunch :) > -- > Ragnar > NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, the National Security Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice. They may do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You have little recourse nor protection except to call for the impeachment of the current President. |
Re: [squeak-dev] Squeak/Seaside on a no-GUI remote host
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In reply to this post by John Chandler-3
On Jul 5, 2008, at 11:32 AM, John Chandler wrote: > On Jul 4, 2008, at 10:16 PM, Avi Bryant wrote: >> On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 1:00 PM, John Chandler <[hidden email]> >> wrote: >>> I have shell (ssh) access to a Debian host that has a DNS-able >>> address, but no X-server. The little I've done in Squeak has all >>> been >>> from the GUI, which depends on X or a similar console GUI, which I >>> don't have access to. I mean, *theoretically,* I could run X, but I >>> seriously doubt I could get it to display on my machine, which lives >>> on a private net in a residential setting. >>> >>> It must be possible to develop for Squeak/Seaside under these >>> conditions, but it's not clear to me what the best way would be. >>> Clues? >> >> Install the RFBServer package. This lets you use VNC to use the >> Squeak GUI remotely, and with much better performance than you would >> have gotten from X. >> >> Avi >> > > When you say RFBServer, you are speaking of vnc, correct? Debian > doesn't > seem to have a package called RFBserver, but vnc does refer in docs, > comments, > and source filenames to the concept of a remote file buffer. Avi is talking about a Squeak package called RFBServer. Josh |
Re: [squeak-dev] Re: [Squeak-dev Images] About the different flavors
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In reply to this post by Rob Rothwell
El 7/5/08 12:04 PM, "Rob Rothwell" <[hidden email]> escribió: > Hello Edgar, > > EJDC> Feedback is a must. > > point taken, will try again and document problems. > > Same here; where is the best place to submit things we find? Mantis? Rob: I read this list, the beginners list, the 3dot list and my private mail . Until we get momentum and start to put all in Mantis. As 3.11 or SqueakLightII >try copying or pasting some text into a workspace in > SqueakLightII.7188! Apparantly ByteString>>utf8ToSqueak is not understood! I bet you was in a UTF8 system, I have all the OS but until the date all work is on my older Mac with PowerPC and Tiger. But as I do with all 3.10, at some point I plan test all in Mac Leopard, Windows XP, Simply Mepis Linux and when I got the iPod VM , also in the iPod. Bet I should start now ! > > What about questions around "how" to do something? The wiki: > > http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6056? http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6056 is the wiki page, where all news go, and also the complains. Fell free to add yours! This page could be crude read from inside SqueakLight , as you should see in the Welcome Window. So, give me the list of your dev and I answer how to load all in SqueakLight. > > I really like the idea of a "small, modular Squeak," but after YEARS I can > FINALLY start from a current dev image and load the other packages I want and > need, and, well, I'm slightly hesitant to try to get everything working (in > SqueakLightII)! > > Rob I repeat is on the way a "microUniverse" thing, which is working. I got advice from Ralph and the system now is with no Undeclared , could run SUnit and have 1500 + green test. All the reds ones belongs to the Etoys removal, I waiting his advice how to deal with this red test. Off course being more modular means some packages now live out of image and is my task be sure all could be loaded again and from the user point of view , is the same as run the 3.10 final image. I plan go until the system loads all any ask the system should load. So ask. Only exception could be packages not longer maintained and with some weird stuff. I cook FunSqueak and still waiting some ask some FunSqueak don't run. What don't means is perfect and fool proof. So I say I could have 3.11 base non official and 3.11 Full non official. But no without users complains. Can I success ? Stay tuned. TO BE CONTINUATED ..... |
Re: [squeak-dev] Re: [Squeak-dev Images] About the different flavors
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In reply to this post by Rob Rothwell
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> > >> try copying or pasting some text into a workspace in >> SqueakLightII.7188! Apparantly ByteString>>utf8ToSqueak is not understood! > > I bet you was in a UTF8 system, I have all the OS but until the date all work > is on my older Mac with PowerPC and Tiger. > But as I do with all 3.10, at some point I plan test all in Mac Leopard, > Windows XP, Simply Mepis Linux and when I got the iPod VM , also in the iPod. > Bet I should start now ! 7188 on Simply Mepis Linux don't seems do weird things. I copy form Kwrite on the Worspace and is the same text. But in Windows Xp and copy from Word to Squeak raise the error ! So my gratitude for the first bug report for SqueakLightII. I made the update and put on the server. Wait until Monday as tomorrow I wish to finish the SLIIUniverses or "microUniverses" way to deal with the 3.10 Universes and classes and packages not in SqueakLightII and needing load first . Edgar |
Re: [squeak-dev] Squeak/Seaside on a no-GUI remote host
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In reply to this post by Joshua Gargus-2
On Jul 5, 2008, at 9:03 PM, Joshua Gargus wrote:
> On Jul 5, 2008, at 11:32 AM, John Chandler wrote: >> On Jul 4, 2008, at 10:16 PM, Avi Bryant wrote: >>> On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 1:00 PM, John Chandler <[hidden email]> >>> wrote: >>>> I have shell (ssh) access to a Debian host that has a DNS-able >>>> [...] >>>> >>>> It must be possible to develop for Squeak/Seaside under these >>>> conditions, but it's not clear to me what the best way would be. >>>> Clues? >>> >>> Install the RFBServer package. This lets you use VNC to use the >>> Squeak GUI remotely, and with much better performance than you would >>> have gotten from X. >>> >>> Avi >>> >> >> When you say RFBServer, you are speaking of vnc, correct? Debian >> doesn't >> seem to have a package called RFBserver, but vnc does refer in >> docs, comments, >> and source filenames to the concept of a remote file buffer. > > Avi is talking about a Squeak package called RFBServer. > > Josh > Ah. Well, that's very different. I hate to be so elementary (dense) about this, but doesn't installing and running a Squeak package imply having the Squeak GUI up and running? Is there a way to get the RFB Server Squeak package to run without first having a windowing system to run the Squeak GUI in? Maybe there's a command-line option to tell Squeak to load the RFB package so that it never tries to use the X that isn't there. And maybe this is all explained in the doc. OK, I found the file that this package is supposed to be in. I couldn't get the package loader to go get it, but I downloaded it and used a File List to load the file RFB-ikp.3.mcz This should be a good thing, except it's not clear to me how to find the package within the image that gave all signs of loading it. I suppose there's a blindingly obvious way to do it, but for whatever reason, I'm going to have to use a lifeline yet again. -jmc ==== FYI, Squeakmap says this package is available from http://www-sor.inria.fr/~piumarta/squeak/goodies.html unfortunately this page it not found. And the contact email bounces messages. |
Re: [squeak-dev] Squeak/Seaside on a no-GUI remote host
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On Jul 6, 2008, at 2:37 AM, John Chandler wrote:
> On Jul 5, 2008, at 9:03 PM, Joshua Gargus wrote: >> On Jul 5, 2008, at 11:32 AM, John Chandler wrote: >>> [...] >>> When you say RFBServer, you are speaking of vnc, correct? Debian >>> doesn't >>> seem to have a package called RFBserver, but vnc does refer in >>> docs, comments, >>> and source filenames to the concept of a remote file buffer. >> >> Avi is talking about a Squeak package called RFBServer. >> >> Josh >> > > RFB-ikp.3.mcz > > This should be a good thing, except it's not clear to me how to find > the package within the image that gave all signs of loading it. I > suppose there's a blindingly obvious way to do it, but for whatever > reason, I'm going to have to use a lifeline yet again. > Yes indeed, blindingly obvious, and found within 3 minutes of sending that, -- Of Course it's in the World Menu -- where else would it be? Sorry folks. -jmc |
Re: [squeak-dev] Squeak/Seaside on a no-GUI remote host
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Am 06.07.2008 um 02:42 schrieb John Chandler:
> Yes indeed, blindingly obvious, and found within 3 minutes of > sending that, > -- Of Course it's in the World Menu -- where else would it be? > > Sorry folks. If you had posted to the newbie's list you would not have to apologize ;) http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners - Bert - |
Re: [squeak-dev] Squeak/Seaside on a no-GUI remote host
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In reply to this post by John Chandler-3
On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 8:32 PM, John Chandler <[hidden email]> wrote:
> failed to set default font path '' > Fatal server error: > could not open default font 'fixed' Google is probably your friend :) Note that, as Josh mentions, Avi and I are talking about different packages. > [code snip] > Does this require a Squeak image running with some relationship to a > GUI, even if it's vnc and nobody's viewing it? I guess there must be some > way to launch Squeak other than clicking on its icon, but, and I find this a > strange thing to say, I don't think I've ever done it any other way. No it does not, that's the whole purpose of it; to be able to update and launch stuff from a ssh session. The only reason I dont use -headless to launch it when updating is so if it gets stuck for some weird reason I can look at it, but its not required. You might as well run squeak -headless my.image -- Ragnar |
Re: [squeak-dev] Squeak/Seaside on a no-GUI remote host
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On Jul 6, 2008, at 3:09 PM, Ragnar Hojland Espinosa wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 8:32 PM, John Chandler <[hidden email]> > wrote: > >> failed to set default font path '' >> Fatal server error: >> could not open default font 'fixed' > > Google is probably your friend :) Note that, as Josh mentions, Avi and > I are talking about different packages. Yes, I completely careened over the high side into no-clue canyon there. > >> [code snip] >> Does this require a Squeak image running with some relationship to a >> GUI, even if it's vnc and nobody's viewing it? I guess there must >> be some >> way to launch Squeak other than clicking on its icon, but, and I >> find this a >> strange thing to say, I don't think I've ever done it any other way. > > No it does not, that's the whole purpose of it; to be able to update > and launch stuff from a ssh session. The only reason I dont use > -headless to launch it when updating is so if it gets stuck for some > weird reason I can look at it, but its not required. You might as well > run squeak -headless my.image > -- > Ragnar Thanks for this; I'd copy the list, but I think I've overdone it a bit there and need to just lurk for a while. -jmc |
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