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[squeak-dev] Update Stream Gone? Replaced with Sapphire? What?

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Tapple Gao

[squeak-dev] Update Stream Gone? Replaced with Sapphire? What?

Someone erased the contents of
http://ftp.squeak.org/updates/updates.list

and replaced it with something Sapphire-related. That is just
wrong. The update stream needs to be preserved.

--
Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/

Edgar J. De Cleene

Re: [squeak-dev] Update Stream Gone? Replaced with Sapphire? What?

El 4/23/08 9:58 PM, "Matthew Fulmer" <[hidden email]> escribió:

> Someone erased the contents of
> http://ftp.squeak.org/updates/updates.list
>
> and replaced it with something Sapphire-related. That is just
> wrong. The update stream needs to be preserved.
>
> --
> Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/

The Board should show some action.
It's unthinkable some guy, whatever great is his name , take community
resources for his own ego satisfaction.

My work is free for Squeak and only for Squeak, any other use is NOT free.

Edgar

Bert Freudenberg

Re: [squeak-dev] Update Stream Gone? Replaced with Sapphire? What?

On 24.04.2008, at 11:07, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:

> El 4/23/08 9:58 PM, "Matthew Fulmer" <[hidden email]> escribió:
>
>> Someone erased the contents of
>> http://ftp.squeak.org/updates/updates.list
>>
>> and replaced it with something Sapphire-related. That is just
>> wrong. The update stream needs to be preserved.
>>
>> --
>> Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/
>
> The Board should show some action.
> It's unthinkable some guy, whatever great is his name , take community
> resources for his own ego satisfaction.
>
> My work is free for Squeak and only for Squeak, any other use is NOT
> free.

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by
stupidity."

Stef, Alexandre, what's up with this?

- Bert -

garduino

Re: [squeak-dev] Update Stream Gone? Replaced with Sapphire? What?

Bad things are happening, as I was reading on IRC. Some people believe to be the owner of Squeak?.

I think the Board must take action and put bridles on the access to the repositories of official versions. A concrete record of all the people with access should be completed (or another control method), but I think that is an urgence.

Cheers.

2008/4/24 Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]>:

On 24.04.2008, at 11:07, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:

El 4/23/08 9:58 PM, "Matthew Fulmer" <[hidden email]> escribió:

Someone erased the contents of
http://ftp.squeak.org/updates/updates.list

and replaced it with something Sapphire-related. That is just
wrong. The update stream needs to be preserved.

-- Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/

The Board should show some action.
It's unthinkable some guy, whatever great is his name , take community
resources for his own ego satisfaction.

My work is free for Squeak and only for Squeak, any other use is NOT free.

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

Stef, Alexandre, what's up with this?

- Bert -

stephane ducasse

Re: [squeak-dev] Update Stream Gone? Replaced with Sapphire? What?

In reply to this post by Tapple Gao

what?

May be this is a mistake with my script.

Stef

On Apr 24, 2008, at 2:58 AM, Matthew Fulmer wrote:

> Someone erased the contents of
> http://ftp.squeak.org/updates/updates.list
>
> and replaced it with something Sapphire-related. That is just
> wrong. The update stream needs to be preserved.
>
> --
> Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/
>
>

stephane ducasse

Re: [squeak-dev] Update Stream Gone? Replaced with Sapphire? What?

In reply to this post by Bert Freudenberg

>>>
> "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by
> stupidity."

Luckily clever people did not lose yet the squeak community.
May be I did a bad manipulation with one of my unix scripts.

Now is there a backup of the update.list file

>
>
> Stef, Alexandre, what's up with this?
>
> - Bert -
>
>
>

stephane ducasse

Re: [squeak-dev] Update Stream Gone? Replaced with Sapphire? What?

In reply to this post by garduino

You know guys.
I really hate to by insulted like that.
When you will have done 5% of what I'm doing for Smalltalk I will let
you freely insult me.

Stef

On Apr 24, 2008, at 12:55 PM, Germán Arduino wrote:

> Bad things are happening, as I was reading on IRC. Some people
> believe to be the owner of Squeak?.
>
> I think the Board must take action and put bridles on the access to
> the repositories of official versions. A concrete record of all the
> people with access should be completed (or another control method),
> but I think that is an urgence.
>
> Cheers.
>
>
> 2008/4/24 Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]>:
> On 24.04.2008, at 11:07, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
>
> El 4/23/08 9:58 PM, "Matthew Fulmer" <[hidden email]> escribió:
>
> Someone erased the contents of
> http://ftp.squeak.org/updates/updates.list
>
> and replaced it with something Sapphire-related. That is just
> wrong. The update stream needs to be preserved.
>
> -- Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/
>
> The Board should show some action.
> It's unthinkable some guy, whatever great is his name , take community
> resources for his own ego satisfaction.
>
> My work is free for Squeak and only for Squeak, any other use is NOT
> free.
>
>
> "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by
> stupidity."
>
> Stef, Alexandre, what's up with this?
>
> - Bert -
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Göran Krampe

Re: [squeak-dev] Update Stream Gone? Replaced with Sapphire? What?

In reply to this post by stephane ducasse

Hi!

stephane ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>
> > "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by
> > stupidity."
>
> Luckily clever people did not lose yet the squeak community.
> May be I did a bad manipulation with one of my unix scripts.
>
> Now is there a backup of the update.list file

I have fixed it. We have backups so I put the previous file back.
Renamed your file to Sapphire-updates.list I think.

regards, Göran

Bert Freudenberg

Re: [squeak-dev] Update Stream Gone? Replaced with Sapphire? What?

In reply to this post by stephane ducasse

On 24.04.2008, at 15:39, stephane ducasse wrote:

>>>>
>> "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained
>> by stupidity."
>
> Luckily clever people did not lose yet the squeak community.
> May be I did a bad manipulation with one of my unix scripts.
>
> Now is there a backup of the update.list file

Göran just fixed it.

- Bert -

stephane ducasse

Re: [squeak-dev] Update Stream Gone? Replaced with Sapphire? What?

In reply to this post by Edgar J. De Cleene

Dear Edgar
I thought that you would have been a bit more trusting people that did
much more than
the average in the past for Smalltalk. But this does not count nowadays
You could have proposed to look for the updates.list files that I
incidently destroy. But I found it on my disc and I
already replace it on the server.

Thanks for your so friendly reaction. This is a gift from you.

Stef

PS: just a side note
first your work is MIT so you do not have control with it
second do not worry I will never steal your "work"

>> Someone erased the contents of
>> http://ftp.squeak.org/updates/updates.list
>>
>> and replaced it with something Sapphire-related. That is just
>> wrong. The update stream needs to be preserved.
>>
>> --
>> Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/
>
> The Board should show some action.
> It's unthinkable some guy, whatever great is his name , take community
> resources for his own ego satisfaction.
>
> My work is free for Squeak and only for Squeak, any other use is NOT
> free.
>
> Edgar
>
>
>
>

stephane ducasse

Re: [squeak-dev] Update Stream Gone? Replaced with Sapphire? What?

In reply to this post by Göran Krampe

Thanks goran

Could you do me a favor:
- I just updated the update file that I found on my hard-disc so may
be this is not the latest one.
Could you reput the latest backed up file?
- Can you remove the sapphire update? We have our own update stream.

BTW I hope to see at Amsterdam: dont you want to do a presentation of
Gjallar?

Stef

On Apr 24, 2008, at 3:43 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Hi!
>
> stephane ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>> "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by
>>> stupidity."
>>
>> Luckily clever people did not lose yet the squeak community.
>> May be I did a bad manipulation with one of my unix scripts.
>>
>> Now is there a backup of the update.list file
>
> I have fixed it. We have backups so I put the previous file back.
> Renamed your file to Sapphire-updates.list I think.
>
> regards, Göran
>
>

stephane ducasse

Re: [squeak-dev] Update Stream Gone? Replaced with Sapphire? What?

In reply to this post by garduino

> Bad things are happening, as I was reading on IRC. Some people
> believe to be the owner of Squeak?.

So apparently IRC is becoming the places to convey rumors....
Excellent like that I will stay away from it.

You know sapphire (soon named diamond) is public and open
http://sapphire.gforge.inria.fr/
and we are not interested to steal squeak, we let it to you guys. Have
fun with it.

For sapphire, may be we will fail, may be we will succeed. But at the
end we will have tried and this is important to break the tyranny
of the past.

Here is the sapphire manifesto taken from the ugly wiki of the forge: http://gforge.inria.fr/plugins/wiki/index.php?id=1211&type=g
Sapphire aka Smalltalk burn the disc pack/professional open source
Smalltalk. . It wants to produce a clean and lean open-source cool
Smalltalk. We want Sapphire to be the obvious choice for professional
development in an open-source Smalltalk. Sapphire wants to take a
fresh look at the Smalltalk philosophy and current implementations

Ideally in 3 years from now we would like to have a small kernel and
some cool packages that we can load on top. We will not duplicate
effort with Mini Image but build on top. The current focus is not to
produce such a kernel but good packages.

• Sapphire wants to help people invent the future.
• Sapphire is a fork. It will start from Squeak but Sapphire is a
fork: Do not expect Etoy/Nebraska to work in Sapphire.
• We will try to avoid to reinvent the wheel but will change if
change is better. We will produce a set of good packages that will be
able to be loaded on a micro/tiny kernel.
Still Sapphire wants to be stable to make sure that we can produce
ideas based on it. An important test for Sapphire is that Seaside http://www.seaside.st/
should run on Sapphire!

Everybody is welcome: if you want to join just send me an email ([hidden email]
or to the mailing-list). You can register to the forge (request for
the team ADAM) and I will add you the project

Sapphire manisfesto
• Better for the better
• Beauty to learn from
• Not backward compatible
• Clean, lean and fast

Stef

Damien Cassou-3

Re: [squeak-dev] Update Stream Gone? Replaced with Sapphire? What?

In reply to this post by Edgar J. De Cleene

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 11:07 AM, Edgar J. De Cleene
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> The Board should show some action.
> It's unthinkable some guy, whatever great is his name , take community
> resources for his own ego satisfaction.

Hey, what are you talking about? I don't know what happened but it's
just a mistake. The Sapphire's developers *never* intended to do
anything bad to Squeak. The mistake is already fixed. You don't have
to insult anyone... We just want to have fun programming in Smalltalk,
not destroy the Squeak community which contains a lot of smart and
friendly guys. Please do not judge that fast.

Here are some fun videos about judging too quickly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkNkbvvyH3M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWH5nbrnndY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXnTpOgCn5c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvqzjsiSs2c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXt7Z32stB0

--
Damien Cassou
Peter von der Ahé: «I'm beginning to see why Gilad wished us good
luck». (http://blogs.sun.com/ahe/entry/override_snafu)

Tapple Gao

Re: [squeak-dev] Update Stream Gone? Replaced with Sapphire? What?

In reply to this post by stephane ducasse

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 04:11:00PM +0200, stephane ducasse wrote:
> Thanks goran
>
> Could you do me a favor:
> - I just updated the update file that I found on my hard-disc so may be
> this is not the latest one.
> Could you reput the latest backed up file?
> - Can you remove the sapphire update? We have our own update stream.

Thanks for finding and fixing the problem so quickly.

--
Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/

Tapple Gao

[squeak-dev] Re: German: please explain yourself

In reply to this post by stephane ducasse

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 03:40:53PM +0200, stephane ducasse wrote:

> You know guys.
> I really hate to by insulted like that.
> When you will have done 5% of what I'm doing for Smalltalk I will let you
> freely insult me.
>
> Stef
>
> On Apr 24, 2008, at 12:55 PM, Germ?n Arduino wrote:
>
>> Bad things are happening, as I was reading on IRC. Some people believe to
>> be the owner of Squeak?.

I agree with Stef. This is quite insulting and you are
mis-representing what I or someone else may have said on IRC, as
well as giving that forum a bad face. Please either explain
yourself or retract your statement.

--
Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/

Edgar J. De Cleene

Re: [squeak-dev] Update Stream Gone? Replaced with Sapphire? What?

In reply to this post by stephane ducasse

El 4/24/08 11:18 AM, "stephane ducasse" <[hidden email]> escribió:

> we are not interested to steal squeak,

So why you start of some with bad license, only for under 12, full of crap ?
(But is what we love !)

> we let it to you guys.

At last.

> Have fun with it
Sometimes we have :=)

>Ideally in 3 years from now we would like to have a small kernel and some cool
packages that we can load on top.

And if still we don't have a small kernel , based on Pavel or Craig work
with all we have now, all we have in past (including Nebraska, Etoys and his
successors) all talented people share with us WITHOUT DO MY WAY OR DIE as
some do, I go to Rome to beg pardon to Pope

Edgar

Tapple Gao

Re: [squeak-dev] Update Stream Gone? Replaced with Sapphire? What?

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 11:46:33AM -0300, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
>
>
>
> El 4/24/08 11:18 AM, "stephane ducasse" <[hidden email]> escribi?:
>
> > we are not interested to steal squeak,
>
> So why you start of some with bad license, only for under 12, full of crap ?
> (But is what we love !)

Contributions are valuable. They are not crap. Do not call them
such.

> >Ideally in 3 years from now we would like to have a small kernel and some cool
> packages that we can load on top.
>
> And if still we don't have a small kernel , based on Pavel or Craig work
> with all we have now, all we have in past (including Nebraska, Etoys and his
> successors) all talented people share with us WITHOUT DO MY WAY OR DIE as
> some do, I go to Rome to beg pardon to Pope

Nobody here has this attitude. Please stop accusing people of
bad motives. You are hurting people by saying things like this.
Please stop

--
Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/

garduino

Re: [squeak-dev] Update Stream Gone? Replaced with Sapphire? What?

In reply to this post by stephane ducasse

Sorry if my comment was bad concatenated here. I don't were talking aboun a simple error that any can do, else if of the last things happening with last versions and lot of things broken.

I will try to express myself better in the thread started by Matthew.

Cheers.

2008/4/24 stephane ducasse <[hidden email]>:

what?

May be this is a mistake with my script.

Stef

On Apr 24, 2008, at 2:58 AM, Matthew Fulmer wrote:

Someone erased the contents of
http://ftp.squeak.org/updates/updates.list

and replaced it with something Sapphire-related. That is just
wrong. The update stream needs to be preserved.

--
Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/

garduino

Re: [squeak-dev] Update Stream Gone? Replaced with Sapphire? What?

In reply to this post by stephane ducasse

Repeat, may be I send my mail in the wrong place, but I'm not insultating you nor neither other. The people who know me would testify I'm a respectful person.

2008/4/24 stephane ducasse <[hidden email]>:

You know guys.
I really hate to by insulted like that.
When you will have done 5% of what I'm doing for Smalltalk I will let you freely insult me.

Stef

On Apr 24, 2008, at 12:55 PM, Germán Arduino wrote:

Bad things are happening, as I was reading on IRC. Some people believe to be the owner of Squeak?.

I think the Board must take action and put bridles on the access to the repositories of official versions. A concrete record of all the people with access should be completed (or another control method), but I think that is an urgence.

Cheers.

2008/4/24 Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]>:
On 24.04.2008, at 11:07, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:

El 4/23/08 9:58 PM, "Matthew Fulmer" <[hidden email]> escribió:

Someone erased the contents of
http://ftp.squeak.org/updates/updates.list

and replaced it with something Sapphire-related. That is just
wrong. The update stream needs to be preserved.

-- Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/

The Board should show some action.
It's unthinkable some guy, whatever great is his name , take community
resources for his own ego satisfaction.

My work is free for Squeak and only for Squeak, any other use is NOT free.

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

Stef, Alexandre, what's up with this?

- Bert -

garduino

Re: [squeak-dev] Re: German: please explain yourself

In reply to this post by Tapple Gao

I wasn't talking about Stef nor other people in particular. I respect a lot the work of Stef and the work of all the people that contributes with Squeak. May be my English don't help to express myself properly.

What I want to comment can't be focused on Stef because he isn't on the IRC regularly. I meant that in last times I was seeing on IRC very passionate discussions, trying to imposse things, instead of trying to find a common benefit.

Examples: a lot, and honestly I prefer not name none, but each person should know what was saying and the logs are on place to read.

Then, my other paragraph in the "problematic" mails was meaning that, in my humble opinion and as I already commented before, the Board should take action/control/participation on the releases and, in summary, about the status of the downloads of Squeak, our main asset.

Hope this explain myself better.

2008/4/24 Matthew Fulmer <[hidden email]>:

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 03:40:53PM +0200, stephane ducasse wrote:
> You know guys.
> I really hate to by insulted like that.
> When you will have done 5% of what I'm doing for Smalltalk I will let you
> freely insult me.
>
> Stef
>
> On Apr 24, 2008, at 12:55 PM, Germ?n Arduino wrote:
>
>> Bad things are happening, as I was reading on IRC. Some people believe to
>> be the owner of Squeak?.

I agree with Stef. This is quite insulting and you are
mis-representing what I or someone else may have said on IRC, as
well as giving that forum a bad face. Please either explain
yourself or retract your statement.

--
Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/