A couple of simple ergonomic adjustments

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Re: A couple of simple ergonomic adjustments

Juan Vuletich-4
Hi Andy, Board,

Please keep in mind that all my code does is to fix StrikeFonts to
support 16 and 32 bit depth glyphs. If that functionality is used to
display subpixel rendered text, that's another story. Well, yes, it's
meant for that. But if there is some patent issue, it is because of the
fonts, not the code.

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich

Andrew Tween escribió:

> "Juan Vuletich" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
> news:[hidden email]...
>> So, Stef, Board, please advice:
>>
>> Who needs to do what to get it there? The code is there, with a small
>> set of fonts. And it is trivial to add anyone the user wants.
>>
>> Should Edgar and the release team just load them? Yes? Edgar, please
>> doit ASAP!
>>
>> Should de Board give a commend? Yes? Board, please doit!
>>
>> Should I do something else? Then, please tell me what.
>
> I believe that, before adding any form of sub-pixel anti-aliased glyph
> rendering to an official distribution, the patent/license situation
> surrounding such technologies should be considered by the ReleaseTeam
> and/or the Board.
>
> For a very clear and concise appraisal, please see
> http://david.freetype.org/cleartype-patents.html
>
> I have chosen to separate the sub-pixel aa parts of the FreeType Plus
> packages from the patent free parts. I have also included warnings in
> the descriptions of the sub-pixel package release on SqueakMap.
>
> Just a heads-up
> Cheers,
> Andy
>


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Re: A couple of simple ergonomic adjustments

Juan Vuletich-4
In reply to this post by Chun, Sungjin
Hi S.J.,

You need some other environment besides Squeak, that can render the
fonts you want. Usually, your Windows, Mac or Linux box can render the
font you like. Open some text editor, chose your font, paste this:

   !   "   #   $   %   &   '   (   )   *   +   ,   -   .   /   0   1  
2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   :   ;   <   =   >   ?  

@   A   B   C   D   E   F   G   H   I   J   K   L   M   N   O   P   Q  
R   S   T   U   V   W   X   Y   Z   [   \   ]   ^   _  

`   a   b   c   d   e   f   g   h   i   j   k   l   m   n   o   p   q  
r   s   t   u   v   w   x   y   z   {   |   }   ~     

€      ‚   ƒ   „   …   †   ‡   ˆ   ‰   Š   ‹   Œ      Ž         ‘  
’   “   ”   •   –   —   ˜   ™   š   ›   œ      ž   Ÿ  

    ¡   ¢   £   ¤   ¥   ¦   §   ¨   ©   ª   «      ­   ®   ¯   °   ±  
²   ³   ´   µ      ·   ¸   ¹   º   »   ¼   ½   ¾   ¿  

À   Á   Â   Ã   Ä   Å   Æ   Ç   È   É   Ê   Ë   Ì   Í   Î   Ï   Ð   Ñ  
Ò   Ó   Ô   Õ   Ö   ×   Ø   Ù   Ú   Û   Ü   Ý   Þ   ß  

à   á   â   ã   ä   å   æ   ç   è   é   ê   ë   ì   í   î   ï   ð   ñ  
ò   ó   ô   õ   ö   ÷   ø   ù   ú   û   ü   ý   þ   ÿ

then save the screen as a BMP file (in Windows, Alt-PrtSc and paste in
Paint works ok).

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich

S.J.Chun escribió:

>  Sorry for rather off-topic, how can I generate more bitmap for other fonts?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>    From: Juan Vuletich <[hidden email]>
>    To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <[hidden email]>
>    Sent: 07-07-12 22:16:15
>    Subject: Re: Re: A couple of simple ergonomic adjustments
>
>   So, Stef, Board, please advice:
>
> Who needs to do what to get it there? The code is there, with a small
> set of fonts. And it is trivial to add anyone the user wants.
>
> Should Edgar and the release team just load them? Yes? Edgar, please
> doit ASAP!
>
> Should de Board give a commend? Yes? Board, please doit!
>
> Should I do something else? Then, please tell me what.
>
> Cheers,
> Juan Vuletich
>
> stephane ducasse escribi:
>  
>> would be nice to have that in squeak-dev 3.9 and 3.10
>>
>> stef
>>
>> On 9 juil. 07, at 20:31, Juan Vuletich wrote:
>>
>>    
>>> Giovanni Corriga escribi:
>>>      
>>>> Il giorno lun, 09/07/2007 alle 11.25 +0200, Mikael Kindborg ha scritto:
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>> Hi, those are nice changes. I also feel that a font like VeraSans
>>>>> greatly improves the user experience. Looks much more
>>>>> professional/fun/clear in my opinion. I speculate that people who try
>>>>> out Squeak would be more positive to the system with better looking
>>>>> default fonts.
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>> Even better, we could use the free and unencumbered Liberation fonts:
>>>> https://www.redhat.com/promo/fonts/
>>>>
>>>> Here's a screenshot of one of my work images:
>>>> http://www.corriga.net/~giovanni/Hacking.image.png
>>>>
>>>>     Giovanni
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>> In my opinion http://www.jvuletich.org/issues/Issue0010.htm looks so
>>> much nicer!
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Juan Vuletich
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>
>>    
>
>
>
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>  


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Re: A couple of simple ergonomic adjustments

Robert Stehwien
In reply to this post by Gary Chambers-4
On 7/12/07, Gary Chambers <[hidden email]> wrote:
> And some not-so-simple ergonomic adjustments ;-)
>
> A piccy of my Squeak desktop along with one of our applications.
>
>  http://www.flickr.com/photos/65338133@N00/789894614/
>
>
> If there's any interest I'll speed up getting it ready for release.
>

I am a new Squeaker and find those screenshots awesome and compelling.
 Please get them out to the community (and thanks) I like smalltalk
and squeak but the UI makes me feel like I jumped in the way-back
machine (a nice UI might be lipstick on a pig for Windows, but I like
my pig to look good).  If I wanted do contracting work with squeak,
I'd have a hard time selling the UI (luckily I'm mostly in squeak for
my thesis work).  Your screenshots look good enough to sell.

I think I've got a decent handle on the language and development tools
thanks to books and tutorials, but thus far making a GUI I like
escapes me.  The lack of tutorial and builders that matches what I'm
used to in Qt, Mac Interface Builder, or even Visual Studio has been
painful.

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Re: A couple of simple ergonomic adjustments

Damien Cassou-3
In reply to this post by Romain Robbes
Hi Romain,

instead of changing manually the code, you'd better add accessors to
the class and add a preference. That would let people customize this.

Please open a bug report which contains the accessors and the new
preference and 1 or 2 tests.

Bye

2007/7/12, Romain Robbes <[hidden email]>:

> To continue on this minimalist trend:
> I changed one method so that the resizing corner grips are invisible until
> the mouse hovers on them. This makes the windows look less busy.
>
>
>     Romain
>
>
> On 7/9/07, Sebastian Sastre <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi there,
> >
> >     I wanted to share a couple of simple and cheap customizations I've
> made on my daily Squeak image that I feel improves (phisical) ergonomy. I
> suggest those guys that make that customized images take a look and ofcourse
> the official Squeak to see if, triviality aside, this is cool enough.
> >
> >     To install, 1) evaluate in a workspace the code in Preferences.text
> attached file and 2) install the ListItemColorPreferences.1.cs changeset
> file.
> >
> >     The changeset with 2 method modifications that make the lists use the
> preferences instead of harcoded colors for highlighting. The preferences
> code is in the other attached file.
> >
> >     Criteria was: minimalism, a better Fitts law score and better
> contrast.
> >
> >     Minimalism. No splitter handlers and pollute the windows with scrolls
> only when rigorously necessary.
> >     Fitts. Make the scrolls wider to reduce the time aiming the pointer
> device (mouse or whatever) before the click.
> >     Contrast. Take care on contrast making it better for items selected in
> a list.
> >
> >     I encourage to use better contrast for highlighting in selected list
> items. Try to read from 1 meter of the screen with the default red over
> lightgray (low contrast) and then customize it to a better contrasted
> version. I liked the readability of cyan over dark blue but is so different
> from the main theme that I choosed a not that radical one (like the one I've
> put in the preferences file).
> >
> >     As developers parsing the low contrast symbols hundred of times a day
> ofen for hours at that low contrast can wastely "raise the temp of our
> graphic cards", this is, unecessary visual stress.
> >
> >     Who knows.. everything to save a couple of headaches :)
> >
> >     all the best,
> >
> >
> >
> > Sebastian Sastre
> >
> > PD: when I had some more time for this I plan to make a preference of
> opening menues and submenues with a click (like it is now) or only with a
> mouse over. This can save hundreds of clicks a week and so the clicker
> finger join.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Damien Cassou

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Re: Ergonomics - Rant

Chris Muller-3
In reply to this post by Sebastian Sastre-2
A fine idea, but the challenge is "what people wants" is not a single thing.

Some want Squeak to behave like MS so it will be easier for newbies to
get started.

Others want more powerfully leveraged gestures, without apologizing
for being unconventional.

Rather than channeling energy into endless discussions trying to agree
on "one ultimate solution" that will inevitably leave the minority
unhappy (and disobedient), we may choose instead to channel it into a
proper "Squeak solution,"; flexing its dynamism to be what every
individual end-user wants it to be.  This is what I eventually did to
bring 3.9 to my taste.

A small core with one-click-loadable configurations will of course
make this a lot better in the future.  Until that time the official
base images are the starting points we have into which loaded
Universes / SqueakMap / Monticello / ChangeSet packages should be what
we use to get us to any of a thousand *destinations* (-dev, -web,
-squeakland, -tweak, -croquet, -seaside, -etc, -etcetc).


On 7/13/07, Sebastian Sastre <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think we can benefit a lot ourselves and other squeak users by organizing
> usability and ergonomics in some kind of system like mantis or such, so
> people knows what people wants (in regard to ergonomics and usability).
>
> The squeak mantis could be used to put under a category of "usability
> issues" (or something like that) this kind of requeriments, expressions,
> wishes?
>
> Demostrating that we are being conscious of this and we are valorating it is
> for sure a step ahead in the "smalltalk experience",
>
>         all the best,
>
> Sebastian Sastre
>
>
> > -----Mensaje original-----
> > De: [hidden email]
> > [mailto:[hidden email]] En
> > nombre de Todd Blanchard
> > Enviado el: Jueves, 12 de Julio de 2007 16:47
> > Para: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
> > Asunto: Ergonomics - Rant
> >
> > Since we are talking about ergonomics, I haven't done any
> > coding in modern images in some time (my production system is
> > 3.7 based) and when I started working on a fix to a minor
> > problem in the HTML parser in a very new image, I found
> > myself frustrated at every turn.
> >
> > 1) When I browse senders, I get a browser with a bunch of methods.
> > If I modify one of the methods, I DO NOT WANT IT TO VANISH
> > FROM THE BROWSER ON SAVE!  I keep having to go find the
> > freakin' thing for every edit.  STOP IT!
> >
> > 2) When I select a class in the browser, please show all the
> > methods initially in the methods pane.  What used to take 1
> > click now takes a couple.  Consider that I'm browsing up and
> > down a hierarchy looking for the level that contains the
> > implementation for a method.  It takes a couple clicks just
> > to look to see if the method is there.
> >
> > In general, the click per operation count seems to be going
> > up, while useful buttons in the browser button bar seem to be
> > vanishing (where is the one that lets me find ivar references now?)
> >
> > Rant over for now.
> >
> > -Todd Blanchard
> >
>
>
>

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Re: A couple of simple ergonomic adjustments

Chris Muller-3
In reply to this post by Romain Robbes
To be truly "minimalist" we should just go back to what 3.8 did; don't
ever display the corner grips.  The hand already changes to indicate
you can resize, so aren't the corner grips a redundant indicator?
And if someone wants to restore the ability to resize from the sides
(a la 3.8) then what would be the display indicator consistent with
the corner-grips?

And yet, with 3.9, we now have NO indication that "something can
happen here" when the mouse is over the close-X, window menu, maximize
or minimize icons.  Again, 3.8 had it totally right.




On 7/12/07, Romain Robbes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> To continue on this minimalist trend:
> I changed one method so that the resizing corner grips are invisible until
> the mouse hovers on them. This makes the windows look less busy.
>
>
>     Romain
>
>
> On 7/9/07, Sebastian Sastre <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi there,
> >
> >     I wanted to share a couple of simple and cheap customizations I've
> made on my daily Squeak image that I feel improves (phisical) ergonomy. I
> suggest those guys that make that customized images take a look and ofcourse
> the official Squeak to see if, triviality aside, this is cool enough.
> >
> >     To install, 1) evaluate in a workspace the code in Preferences.text
> attached file and 2) install the ListItemColorPreferences.1.cs changeset
> file.
> >
> >     The changeset with 2 method modifications that make the lists use the
> preferences instead of harcoded colors for highlighting. The preferences
> code is in the other attached file.
> >
> >     Criteria was: minimalism, a better Fitts law score and better
> contrast.
> >
> >     Minimalism. No splitter handlers and pollute the windows with scrolls
> only when rigorously necessary.
> >     Fitts. Make the scrolls wider to reduce the time aiming the pointer
> device (mouse or whatever) before the click.
> >     Contrast. Take care on contrast making it better for items selected in
> a list.
> >
> >     I encourage to use better contrast for highlighting in selected list
> items. Try to read from 1 meter of the screen with the default red over
> lightgray (low contrast) and then customize it to a better contrasted
> version. I liked the readability of cyan over dark blue but is so different
> from the main theme that I choosed a not that radical one (like the one I've
> put in the preferences file).
> >
> >     As developers parsing the low contrast symbols hundred of times a day
> ofen for hours at that low contrast can wastely "raise the temp of our
> graphic cards", this is, unecessary visual stress.
> >
> >     Who knows.. everything to save a couple of headaches :)
> >
> >     all the best,
> >
> >
> >
> > Sebastian Sastre
> >
> > PD: when I had some more time for this I plan to make a preference of
> opening menues and submenues with a click (like it is now) or only with a
> mouse over. This can save hundreds of clicks a week and so the clicker
> finger join.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: A couple of simple ergonomic adjustments

Chris Muller-3
In reply to this post by Sebastian Sastre-2
Wouldn't it be simpler and more consistent to just use the
textHighlightColor rather than adding another preference?  It actually
should be renamed to "selectionColor", so that selections, be they in
lists or text, are consistently rendered.

On 7/8/07, Sebastian Sastre <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Hi there,
>
>     I wanted to share a couple of simple and cheap customizations I've made
> on my daily Squeak image that I feel improves (phisical) ergonomy. I suggest
> those guys that make that customized images take a look and ofcourse the
> official Squeak to see if, triviality aside, this is cool enough.
>
>     To install, 1) evaluate in a workspace the code in Preferences.text
> attached file and 2) install the ListItemColorPreferences.1.cs changeset
> file.
>
>     The changeset with 2 method modifications that make the lists use the
> preferences instead of harcoded colors for highlighting. The preferences
> code is in the other attached file.
>
>     Criteria was: minimalism, a better Fitts law score and better contrast.
>
>     Minimalism. No splitter handlers and pollute the windows with scrolls
> only when rigorously necessary.
>     Fitts. Make the scrolls wider to reduce the time aiming the pointer
> device (mouse or whatever) before the click.
>     Contrast. Take care on contrast making it better for items selected in a
> list.
>
>     I encourage to use better contrast for highlighting in selected list
> items. Try to read from 1 meter of the screen with the default red over
> lightgray (low contrast) and then customize it to a better contrasted
> version. I liked the readability of cyan over dark blue but is so different
> from the main theme that I choosed a not that radical one (like the one I've
> put in the preferences file).
>
>     As developers parsing the low contrast symbols hundred of times a day
> ofen for hours at that low contrast can wastely "raise the temp of our
> graphic cards", this is, unecessary visual stress.
>
>     Who knows.. everything to save a couple of headaches :)
>
>     all the best,
>
>
>
> Sebastian Sastre
>
> PD: when I had some more time for this I plan to make a preference of
> opening menues and submenues with a click (like it is now) or only with a
> mouse over. This can save hundreds of clicks a week and so the clicker
> finger join.
>
>
>
>

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Re: Ergonomics - Rant

Damien Cassou-3
In reply to this post by tblanchard
2007/7/12, Todd Blanchard <[hidden email]>:
> 1) When I browse senders, I get a browser with a bunch of methods.
> If I modify one of the methods, I DO NOT WANT IT TO VANISH FROM THE
> BROWSER ON SAVE!  I keep having to go find the freakin' thing for
> every edit.  STOP IT!


I you browser the senders and, after modification, your method is not
a sender anymore, it's normal that the method disappear.


> 2) When I select a class in the browser, please show all the methods
> initially in the methods pane.  What used to take 1 click now takes a
> couple.  Consider that I'm browsing up and down a hierarchy looking
> for the level that contains the implementation for a method.  It
> takes a couple clicks just to look to see if the method is there.


This is a known problem. People are searching solutions to allow this
without hacking in the framework.


> In general, the click per operation count seems to be going up, while
> useful buttons in the browser button bar seem to be vanishing (where
> is the one that lets me find ivar references now?)

it is named 'variables'.

--
Damien Cassou

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Re: Ergonomics - Rant

David Mitchell-10
Damien, I agree with Todd on this one.

While it is certainly a defensible position to say that the method
should disappear because after editing, it doesn't match the browser's
criteria, but I think it is less useful.

That is, I think of the senders browser as being a filter on open not
a continuously updating filter. Once open, I want to edit my code. I
don't want it to keep on filtering.

On 7/16/07, Damien Cassou <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2007/7/12, Todd Blanchard <[hidden email]>:
> > 1) When I browse senders, I get a browser with a bunch of methods.
> > If I modify one of the methods, I DO NOT WANT IT TO VANISH FROM THE
> > BROWSER ON SAVE!  I keep having to go find the freakin' thing for
> > every edit.  STOP IT!
>
>
> I you browser the senders and, after modification, your method is not
> a sender anymore, it's normal that the method disappear.
>

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Re: Ergonomics - Rant

Michael Rueger-4
David Mitchell wrote:
> Damien, I agree with Todd on this one.
>
> While it is certainly a defensible position to say that the method
> should disappear because after editing, it doesn't match the browser's
> criteria, but I think it is less useful.
>
> That is, I think of the senders browser as being a filter on open not
> a continuously updating filter. Once open, I want to edit my code. I
> don't want it to keep on filtering.

Classic case of two different use cases. Can't cover both at once ;-)

A little check box "keep on truck^h^h^h^h^hfiltering" would allow for
both ways to use the filtered list.

Michael

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RE: Ergonomics - Rant

Gary Chambers-4
Indeed, would be nice if it monitored new senders of the method selector
too!
Though, as I know, that would be rather cpu heavy. Best to treat it as a
snapshot at the time it was asked for.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael
Rueger
Sent: 16 July 2007 2:55 pm
To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
Subject: Re: Ergonomics - Rant


David Mitchell wrote:
> Damien, I agree with Todd on this one.
>
> While it is certainly a defensible position to say that the method
> should disappear because after editing, it doesn't match the browser's
> criteria, but I think it is less useful.
>
> That is, I think of the senders browser as being a filter on open not
> a continuously updating filter. Once open, I want to edit my code. I
> don't want it to keep on filtering.

Classic case of two different use cases. Can't cover both at once ;-)

A little check box "keep on truck^h^h^h^h^hfiltering" would allow for
both ways to use the filtered list.

Michael


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Re: A couple of simple ergonomic adjustments

Damien Cassou-3
In reply to this post by Chris Muller-3
2007/7/16, Chris Muller <[hidden email]>:
> Wouldn't it be simpler and more consistent to just use the
> textHighlightColor rather than adding another preference?  It actually
> should be renamed to "selectionColor", so that selections, be they in
> lists or text, are consistently rendered.

I don't have any textHighlightColor preference in my 3.10 based image.

--
Damien Cassou

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Re: Ergonomics - Rant

Damien Cassou-3
In reply to this post by Gary Chambers-4
2007/7/16, Gary Chambers <[hidden email]>:
> Indeed, would be nice if it monitored new senders of the method selector
> too!


This is already done: the sender browser is informed when a new sender appears.


> Though, as I know, that would be rather cpu heavy.

This does not consume more. The notification system informs the
browser when a method is changed or when a new method is created.

> Best to treat it as a snapshot at the time it was asked for.

--
Damien Cassou

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RE: A couple of simple ergonomic adjustments

Gary Chambers-4
In reply to this post by Damien Cassou-3
Seems to have a method in Preferences class and appears explicitly in the
Appearance menu menu off the World.
Doesn't appear in the preference browser though.
Had me worried there (that's my default fallback colour for the theme-based
selection colour)!

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Damien
Cassou
Sent: 16 July 2007 3:20 pm
To: [hidden email]; The general-purpose Squeak developers list
Subject: Re: A couple of simple ergonomic adjustments


2007/7/16, Chris Muller <[hidden email]>:
> Wouldn't it be simpler and more consistent to just use the
> textHighlightColor rather than adding another preference?  It actually
> should be renamed to "selectionColor", so that selections, be they in
> lists or text, are consistently rendered.

I don't have any textHighlightColor preference in my 3.10 based image.

--
Damien Cassou


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RE: Ergonomics - Rant

Gary Chambers-4
In reply to this post by Damien Cassou-3
Is that new for 3.10, doesn't seem to happened in my 3.9...

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Damien
Cassou
Sent: 16 July 2007 3:47 pm
To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
Subject: Re: Ergonomics - Rant


2007/7/16, Gary Chambers <[hidden email]>:
> Indeed, would be nice if it monitored new senders of the method
> selector too!


This is already done: the sender browser is informed when a new sender
appears.


> Though, as I know, that would be rather cpu heavy.

This does not consume more. The notification system informs the browser when
a method is changed or when a new method is created.

> Best to treat it as a snapshot at the time it was asked for.

--
Damien Cassou


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Re: Ergonomics - Rant

Damien Cassou-3
2007/7/16, Gary Chambers <[hidden email]>:
> Is that new for 3.10, doesn't seem to happened in my 3.9...

Are you sure you are using OmniBrowser?
Do you use a squeak-dev image?

--
Damien Cassou

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RE: Ergonomics - Rant

Gary Chambers-4
Yes (not) and no. Those are next for testing ;-)

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Damien
Cassou
Sent: 16 July 2007 4:30 pm
To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
Subject: Re: Ergonomics - Rant


2007/7/16, Gary Chambers <[hidden email]>:
> Is that new for 3.10, doesn't seem to happened in my 3.9...

Are you sure you are using OmniBrowser?
Do you use a squeak-dev image?

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Damien Cassou


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Re: Ergonomics - Rant

Damien Cassou-3
2007/7/16, Gary Chambers <[hidden email]>:
> Yes (not) and no. Those are next for testing ;-)

Your version might be too old.

BTW, do you have a reason for not using the squeak-dev images?

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Damien Cassou

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RE: Ergonomics - Rant

Gary Chambers-4
Since we do business devlopment we like to keep things a bit more stable,
though try to keep up with the main release.
Besides, I find the eCompletion stuff a bit problematic (some of us use it
though).

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Damien
Cassou
Sent: 16 July 2007 5:01 pm
To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
Subject: Re: Ergonomics - Rant


2007/7/16, Gary Chambers <[hidden email]>:
> Yes (not) and no. Those are next for testing ;-)

Your version might be too old.

BTW, do you have a reason for not using the squeak-dev images?

--
Damien Cassou


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Re: Ergonomics - Rant

Damien Cassou-3
2007/7/16, Gary Chambers <[hidden email]>:
> Since we do business devlopment we like to keep things a bit more stable,
> though try to keep up with the main release.
> Besides, I find the eCompletion stuff a bit problematic (some of us use it
> though).

What is problematic for you might be problematic for others too. What is it?

--
Damien Cassou

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