[ANN] new Seaside homepage
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> There's already a fair amount of branding around Seaside as "the > heretical web framework" because of talks I've given at O'Reilly > conferences. So, now that I think of it, having a slogan around > heresy seems like a great idea. Anyone have any ideas? Hmm... Heresy-side... perhaps something about indulgences... have to think about this one. So many mixed metaphors to consider! ;) -C -- Craig Latta improvisational musical informaticist www.netjam.org Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)] _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: [ANN] new Seaside homepage
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In reply to this post by Avi Bryant-2
"Nobody expects the Spanish Continuation!" On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, Avi Bryant wrote: > I don't think the connotations are that bad, unless you're catholic. > According to the OED, heresy is "an opinion or doctrine ... at > variance with those generally accepted as authoritative." Which > describes Seaside perfectly. > > There's already a fair amount of branding around Seaside as "the > heretical web framework" because of talks I've given at O'Reilly > conferences. So, now that I think of it, having a slogan around > heresy seems like a great idea. Anyone have any ideas? > > Avi > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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> "Nobody expects the Spanish Continuation!" Don't you mean "Nobody expects the REST-ful Inquisition!" -Carl Gundel http://www.runbasic.com _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: [ANN] new Seaside homepage
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In reply to this post by Colin Putney
Il giorno gio, 12/07/2007 alle 13.25 -0700, Colin Putney ha scritto:
> On Jul 12, 2007, at 12:50 PM, Richard Eng wrote: > > > Well, if branding based on this word is already well-known, then I > > guess > > it's okay. I'm not Catholic (I'm agnostic), but "heretic" always > > conjures up > > images of the authorities stoning you or beating you into > > submission. :-) > > Yeah, that's about right. REST-geeks really don't like Seaside. I wouldn't paint the REST-geeks as the authorities ;-) Giovanni _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 00:14:25 -0700, Giovanni Corriga
<[hidden email]> wrote: > Il giorno gio, 12/07/2007 alle 13.25 -0700, Colin Putney ha scritto: >> On Jul 12, 2007, at 12:50 PM, Richard Eng wrote: >> >> > Well, if branding based on this word is already well-known, then I >> > guess >> > it's okay. I'm not Catholic (I'm agnostic), but "heretic" always >> > conjures up >> > images of the authorities stoning you or beating you into >> > submission. :-) >> >> Yeah, that's about right. REST-geeks really don't like Seaside. > > I wouldn't paint the REST-geeks as the authorities ;-) They =are= the soul-less minions of orthodoxy, are they not? <joke! joke!> _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: [ANN] new Seaside homepage
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Il giorno ven, 13/07/2007 alle 01.28 -0700, Blake ha scritto:
> On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 00:14:25 -0700, Giovanni Corriga > <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > Il giorno gio, 12/07/2007 alle 13.25 -0700, Colin Putney ha scritto: > >> On Jul 12, 2007, at 12:50 PM, Richard Eng wrote: > >> > >> > Well, if branding based on this word is already well-known, then I > >> > guess > >> > it's okay. I'm not Catholic (I'm agnostic), but "heretic" always > >> > conjures up > >> > images of the authorities stoning you or beating you into > >> > submission. :-) > >> > >> Yeah, that's about right. REST-geeks really don't like Seaside. > > > > I wouldn't paint the REST-geeks as the authorities ;-) > > They =are= the soul-less minions of orthodoxy, are they not? :-) If by orthodoxy you mean "let's use all of the HTTP spec", then yes. If by orthodoxy you mean "your framework must have a templating system and XML configuration", then definitely no ;-) Giovanni _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: [ANN] new Seaside homepage
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In reply to this post by Avi Bryant-2
But the general emotional appreciation is negative (much or little).
If we want to capture emotionally the reader we should choose very carefully the emotions we evocate. I'm of the idea to use only positive and that ensures not going against nobody cheers, Sebastian Sastre > -----Mensaje original----- > De: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre > de Avi Bryant > Enviado el: Jueves, 12 de Julio de 2007 16:34 > Para: Seaside - general discussion > Asunto: Re: [Seaside] [ANN] new Seaside homepage > > On 7/12/07, Richard Eng <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > I find the word "heretic" in "The heretic web framework" a > bit off-putting. > > The word has a bad connotation. Better alternatives would be > > "iconoclast" or "renegade". > > I don't think the connotations are that bad, unless you're catholic. > According to the OED, heresy is "an opinion or doctrine ... > at variance with those generally accepted as authoritative." > Which describes Seaside perfectly. > > There's already a fair amount of branding around Seaside as > "the heretical web framework" because of talks I've given at > O'Reilly conferences. So, now that I think of it, having a > slogan around heresy seems like a great idea. Anyone have any ideas? > > Avi > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: [ANN] new Seaside homepage
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In reply to this post by keith1y
And why we should justify and explicit suggestion to go against Ruby
technology? Sebastian Sastre > -----Mensaje original----- > De: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre > de Keith Hodges > Enviado el: Jueves, 12 de Julio de 2007 15:24 > Para: Seaside - general discussion > Asunto: Re: [Seaside] [ANN] new Seaside homepage > > how about... > > Seaside...when you are going off the rails, take a holiday! > > cheers > > Keith > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: [ANN] new Seaside homepage
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In reply to this post by Richard Eng
Ok but what a slogan is for? I see that it is for identification, to
evocation and, consequently to rememoration. Technically we have to refactor the escence of the emotions of our *best* moments with seaside and put it in maximum 3 or 4 simple words. Perhaps before going directly to the slogan we should have some intermediate points of consense about what the "Seaside experience" means to each one of us. For me it represents the way that web development should allways have to be. In other words before seaside web development did not exist (IMHO). It was so caotic that barely could be named software development. Metaphorically: it was just a result of the big bang of internet. Things are more settled now in some 'planets' (frameworks) and life (live objects) are starting to develop in this universe. My feel is that Seaside succeeded in making web development to be felt a lot like desktop development. This point of the "Seaside experience" is a key because when newbies have their "aha moment" if their read or remember the slogan (if it is good enough) it will sound like 'music for their ears'. I mean, they will feel emotionally identified with it. In this regard the example of the slogan of scriptaculous is fantastically accurate. Also the martial arts slogans like javascript-fu in allusion to kung-fu are good for what they are meant because ofen you have to "fight against" javascript to archieve what you want. So if your fu is good enough you succeed with it. If not you will need more practice in the "dojo" (another good marketing example). The aha moment of javascripters is identifiable with a kind of computative kung-fu. A fight against an unhuman syntax, etc. By no mean I see this as the same scenario with Seaside. With Seaside I feel I can create what I need painlessly. It makes me remember when as child I played with lego like briks (components). Another situation like that is making castles with sand at the beach. This was: "creation without pain". If it is for you also, do you think this could/should be a key word to influenciate the Seaside slogan? I don't feel being heretic by using seaside. In that field at most I feel being agnostic and feel that I don't let myself to be impressed by big trends, other than Seaside, because I'm confident enough in what I see of what can be archieved with it and in what I can archieve with it. My conclusion of the least errorless kind of slogan by now is like "a beach for web development" kind because this kind of slogan: -evoke a pleasant creative experience (which is a key point of seaside and smalltalk, so two thumbs up for this one) -is non beligerant (which to me it seems to be pointless using that for this case) -compatible with beach/sea theme (diverging from this will ensure confusivness and trend debilitation) -non negative evoker (you don't express the *escence of positive* by talking of the escence of negative) -non evoking feels of invading territory of other technologies (we don't need that. Even being an open source product we should go to a blue ocean not to a red one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Ocean_Strategy) -It don't falls in the too technician trap (that has the effect of excluding people). -Its not coupled with the "html" word (beside being too much technician, maybe in the future another protocol will arrise and seaside may still be fine with it because protocol it's only a medium). -Ditto for REST word (even I can't say if I completely understand it. By using Seaside we hope people don't even have to know about what is that). So what about let's go once more time to iterate our emotions using Seaside? Specially trying to remember the emotions of our (I'm sure lots of) "aha" moments with it so we can try to 'serialize' them in (max) 3 words. all the best, Sebastian Sastre > -----Mensaje original----- > De: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre > de Richard Eng > Enviado el: Jueves, 12 de Julio de 2007 01:26 > Para: Seaside - general discussion > Asunto: Re: [Seaside] [ANN] new Seaside homepage > > How about "The Easy Road to the Agile Web"? (Alluding to > agile development.) > > Or "Archimedes' Lever to the Web"? (The power to move the world.) > > Or "The Fast Lane to HTTP"? (Suggesting rapid prototyping.) > > Or "The Elegant Web"? (Writing elegant applications for the web.) > > Or "The Avant-Garde Web"? (Cutting edge, vanguard > development. Seaside is > rebellious.) > > Or "Sophisticated Web Creations"? (The artful way to create web apps.) > > Or "The Way of the Web Warrior"? (An allusion to martial arts.) > > Regards, > Richard > > > On 7/11/07 12:49 PM, "Sebastian Sastre" <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > 1) The slogan is a little too technician and long for a "punch" > > effect. It's too late to explore something more synthetic? > like (kind > > of result scriptaculous archieved creating it's slogan > "it's about the > > user interface, baby!") > > > > Ideas to start a brainstorm for a more synthetic seaside slogan: > > > > "Interactivity like a breeze" (breeze is kind of beach thing so > > compatible with the seaside style) "Web development like a breeze" > > "Online applications like you wanted" > > "Web complexity eased" > > "Put HTML to work for you" > > "Web interactivity made simple" > > > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Sebastian Sastre-2
That's why I favour "the renegade web framework". Sounds less negative.
When devising a slogan, it is very important to pay attention to the emotions (subtle or otherwise) that it evokes. "Visceral impact" is everything! Regards, Richard On 7/13/07 7:40 AM, "Sebastian Sastre" <[hidden email]> wrote: > But the general emotional appreciation is negative (much or little). > > If we want to capture emotionally the reader we should choose very carefully > the emotions we evocate. I'm of the idea to use only positive and that > ensures not going against nobody > > cheers, > > Sebastian Sastre > > > > >> -----Mensaje original----- >> De: [hidden email] >> [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre >> de Avi Bryant >> Enviado el: Jueves, 12 de Julio de 2007 16:34 >> Para: Seaside - general discussion >> Asunto: Re: [Seaside] [ANN] new Seaside homepage >> >> On 7/12/07, Richard Eng <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> I find the word "heretic" in "The heretic web framework" a >> bit off-putting. >>> The word has a bad connotation. Better alternatives would be >>> "iconoclast" or "renegade". >> >> I don't think the connotations are that bad, unless you're catholic. >> According to the OED, heresy is "an opinion or doctrine ... >> at variance with those generally accepted as authoritative." >> Which describes Seaside perfectly. >> >> There's already a fair amount of branding around Seaside as >> "the heretical web framework" because of talks I've given at >> O'Reilly conferences. So, now that I think of it, having a >> slogan around heresy seems like a great idea. Anyone have any ideas? >> >> Avi >> _______________________________________________ >> Seaside mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Sebastian Sastre-2
On 7/13/07 8:42 AM, "Sebastian Sastre" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> My feel is that Seaside succeeded in making web development to be felt a lot > like desktop development. This point of the "Seaside experience" is a key > because when newbies have their "aha moment" if their read or remember the > slogan (if it is good enough) it will sound like 'music for their ears'. I > mean, they will feel emotionally identified with it. I tried to come up with a clever slogan that encapsulates the idea of a "desktop" app for the Web, but I was unsuccessful. This is tough! :-) > By no mean I see this as the same scenario with Seaside. With Seaside I feel > I can create what I need painlessly. It makes me remember when as child I > played with lego like briks (components). Another situation like that is > making castles with sand at the beach. Oooh, "sand castles", or "castles in the sand"!!! Somebody has *got* to come up with a slogan that uses this! Seriously. :-) Regards, Richard _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Sebastian Sastre-2
We shouldn't give Rails any more "airtime" than they've already got. But
there's no denying that they've taken the high ground. Seaside faces enormous pressures from Rails' popularity. For example... I've made the decision to use Seaside for a commercial venture. (I've been warned against this because I'm a Seaside newbie. But that's another story.) People who are aware of my decision are trying to get me to switch to Java, Ruby on Rails, or JRuby. It's safer, they say, because the amount of "infrastructure, or ecosystem, support" I'd get would be much greater than for Seaside/Smalltalk. They may have a point. I note a recent development: http://www.nedforce.nl/2007/6/11/whootube-ruby-on-rails-video-streaming-open -sourced Does Seaside have anything similar for video streaming? (And, yes, my commercial venture does involve video streaming.) Nevertheless, I want to proceed with Seaside. People like Avi Bryant and Ramon Leon make too powerful arguments for me to ignore. *Seaside is a risk well worth taking.* Now there's a slogan! :-) Regards, Richard On 7/13/07 7:44 AM, "Sebastian Sastre" <[hidden email]> wrote: > And why we should justify and explicit suggestion to go against Ruby > technology? > > Sebastian Sastre > > >> -----Mensaje original----- >> De: [hidden email] >> [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre >> de Keith Hodges >> Enviado el: Jueves, 12 de Julio de 2007 15:24 >> Para: Seaside - general discussion >> Asunto: Re: [Seaside] [ANN] new Seaside homepage >> >> how about... >> >> Seaside...when you are going off the rails, take a holiday! >> >> cheers >> >> Keith >> _______________________________________________ >> Seaside mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Sebastian Sastre-2
> And why we should justify and explicit suggestion to go against Ruby
> technology? No doubt there are other ways to fry this egg, but this is a valid marketing idea, to try and stake out a position in the prospect's mind. However since Rails is the counter culture, I wonder if we wouldn't be scrambling for too small a niche if we position Seaside as the counter counter culture. On the other hand this could work really well later if Rails becomes the orthodox choice for web development (or is it already so?). -Carl Gundel http://www.runbasic.com _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: [ANN] new Seaside homepage
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In reply to this post by Richard Eng
> Nevertheless, I want to proceed with Seaside. People like Avi > Bryant and Ramon Leon make too powerful arguments for me to > ignore. *Seaside is a risk well worth taking.* > > Now there's a slogan! :-) > > Regards, > Richard > If the target is encourage venture enterpreneurs and venture investors with questions about technology choices then maybe it is. But I think that it identifies well just a little step in the *Seaside experience*. The business startup phase. So I'm of the idea of capturing something more permanent or frequent about the seaside experience. Sorry about criticism but I see is useful because I see we are improving here so let's continue brainstorming. all the best ! Sebastian PD: the prhase it's encouraging but the risk word in a slogan is too risky :) but for sure the prhase is useful to promote somehow in the Seaside site. As a final conclusion of a relate of a history of success for instance. _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: [ANN] new Seaside homepage
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In reply to this post by Richard Eng
> -----Mensaje original----- > De: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre > de Richard Eng > Enviado el: Viernes, 13 de Julio de 2007 10:36 > Para: Seaside - general discussion > Asunto: Re: [Seaside] [ANN] new Seaside homepage > > We shouldn't give Rails any more "airtime" than they've > already got. +1. Totally agree. Another reason not to use this approach. Cheers, Sebastian _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: [ANN] new Seaside homepage
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In reply to this post by Carl Gundel
> > And why we should justify and explicit suggestion to go > against Ruby > > technology? > > No doubt there are other ways to fry this egg, but this is a > valid marketing idea, to try and stake out a position in the > prospect's mind. However since Rails is the counter culture, > I wonder if we wouldn't be scrambling for too small a niche > if we position Seaside as the counter counter culture. On > the other hand this could work really well later if Rails > becomes the orthodox choice for web development (or is it > already so?). > > -Carl Gundel > http://www.runbasic.com > is/should related to the *Seaside experience* wich is the slogan prupose. And note that I think this idea is also useful to be for instance in a promotional article in the site blog to encourage rubiers (just a segment) to give it a try. The shake effect should be contextualized by the article text so agresivity will be guaranteed to be neutralized, this is: not to be misinterpreted and read like that was used as a friendly instigation (which is only aparently contradictive) to wake up interest to something different and better (which the article should plenty clarify). cheers, Sebastian _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Richard Eng
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf > Of Richard Eng > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 6:17 AM > To: Seaside - general discussion > Subject: Re: [Seaside] [ANN] new Seaside homepage > > That's why I favour "the renegade web framework". Sounds less > negative. > > When devising a slogan, it is very important to pay attention > to the emotions (subtle or otherwise) that it evokes. > "Visceral impact" is everything! > > Regards, > Richard Less negative to whom? To a manager deciding whether to allow it or not, I'd think that slogan does more harm than good. When I first started using Seaside, there was a "what the fuck" reaction. Then came pain, as I realized all the crap I used to do felt hard. Then came the "Aha!", as I realized I didn't need to do all that crap anymore. Then came the "Ahhhhhhhhhh......" as I settled down and realized what a pleasure it write applications with real components, that were actually composeable, in a framework that unlike all the rest, was truly object oriented. Object oriented in the Smalltalk sense, the only language that actually knows what Object Oriented really means. For the most part, that meant no more cookies, no more query strings, no more templates, and no more pages, just components calling components. Then I quit my corporate job and moved to a smaller company for less pay that would allow me to use the technology of my choosing rather than force me to work with established tools. Best decision I've ever made, I've never been happier with work. Seaside isn't a renegade web framework, it's a Zen web framework for those tired of the suffering imposed upon us by standard web development. Seaside is enlightenment come to the web. Seaside is to manual state management what garbage collectors were to manual memory management. Many scream foul, others scream about scalability or speed, but history repeats itself, and just as before, automation and ease of use are king, and computers keep getting faster. Those who don't get on board will simply be displaced by those who do. Ramon Leon http://onsmalltalk.com _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: [ANN] new Seaside homepage
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Great words Ramon. I feel identified with what you said. After reading your email I re-read your systetizer prhase: "Seaside is enlightenment come to the web". That phrase represents very well this: 1) the factorization of all the crap in web development 2) evoke the "aha" moment 3) subtlety and kindly suggest that you will don't get it until you get it (because you have to reach enlightment) 4) light (allways an useful thing to have) 5) the web gives sense to all this 6) kindly criticize what does not matter (by pointing what it does). So if we transform your prhase into a slogan it could be something like: "Enlight the web" "Web enlightment has arrived" "Enlighting the web" "Web development enlightment" "Iluminate development" "Web development enlighted" An inportant moment to open mind and chest to express the seaside experience has arrived. Lets put our best experiences in words guys/girls!! cheers, Sebastian Sastre PS: the beach theme is not present explicitely but the star of the logo could function like a link between beach and enlightment: if we use the whole metaphore interpreting the sea as internet and Seaside as the star at the beach, well star is also a source of light illuminating the beach, so I think it has good chances to work. > -----Mensaje original----- > De: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre > de Ramon Leon > Enviado el: Viernes, 13 de Julio de 2007 12:54 > Para: 'Seaside - general discussion' > Asunto: RE: [Seaside] [ANN] new Seaside homepage > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [hidden email] > > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of > > Richard Eng > > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 6:17 AM > > To: Seaside - general discussion > > Subject: Re: [Seaside] [ANN] new Seaside homepage > > > > That's why I favour "the renegade web framework". Sounds less > > negative. > > > > When devising a slogan, it is very important to pay > attention to the > > emotions (subtle or otherwise) that it evokes. > > "Visceral impact" is everything! > > > > Regards, > > Richard > > Less negative to whom? To a manager deciding whether to > allow it or not, I'd think that slogan does more harm than good. > > When I first started using Seaside, there was a "what the > fuck" reaction. > > Then came pain, as I realized all the crap I used to do felt hard. > > Then came the "Aha!", as I realized I didn't need to do all > that crap anymore. > > Then came the "Ahhhhhhhhhh......" as I settled down and > realized what a pleasure it write applications with real > components, that were actually composeable, in a framework > that unlike all the rest, was truly object oriented. Object > oriented in the Smalltalk sense, the only language that > actually knows what Object Oriented really means. For the > most part, that meant no more cookies, no more query strings, > no more templates, and no more pages, just components calling > components. > > Then I quit my corporate job and moved to a smaller company > for less pay that would allow me to use the technology of my > choosing rather than force me to work with established tools. > Best decision I've ever made, I've never been happier with work. > > Seaside isn't a renegade web framework, it's a Zen web > framework for those tired of the suffering imposed upon us by > standard web development. Seaside is enlightenment come to the web. > > Seaside is to manual state management what garbage collectors > were to manual memory management. Many scream foul, others > scream about scalability or speed, but history repeats > itself, and just as before, automation and ease of use are > king, and computers keep getting faster. Those who don't get > on board will simply be displaced by those who do. > > Ramon Leon > http://onsmalltalk.com > > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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I'm just another Seaside user, but I like 'Enlight the web'.
On 7/13/07, Sebastian Sastre <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Great words Ramon. I feel identified with what you said. After reading your > email I re-read your systetizer prhase: "Seaside is enlightenment come to > the web". That phrase represents very well this: 1) the factorization of all > the crap in web development 2) evoke the "aha" moment 3) subtlety and kindly > suggest that you will don't get it until you get it (because you have to > reach enlightment) 4) light (allways an useful thing to have) 5) the web > gives sense to all this 6) kindly criticize what does not matter (by > pointing what it does). > > So if we transform your prhase into a slogan it could be something like: > > "Enlight the web" > "Web enlightment has arrived" > "Enlighting the web" > "Web development enlightment" > "Iluminate development" > "Web development enlighted" > > An inportant moment to open mind and chest to express the seaside experience > has arrived. Lets put our best experiences in words guys/girls!! > > cheers, > > Sebastian Sastre > PS: the beach theme is not present explicitely but the star of the logo > could function like a link between beach and enlightment: if we use the > whole metaphore interpreting the sea as internet and Seaside as the star at > the beach, well star is also a source of light illuminating the beach, so I > think it has good chances to work. > > > > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: [hidden email] > > [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre > > de Ramon Leon > > Enviado el: Viernes, 13 de Julio de 2007 12:54 > > Para: 'Seaside - general discussion' > > Asunto: RE: [Seaside] [ANN] new Seaside homepage > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [hidden email] > > > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of > > > Richard Eng > > > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 6:17 AM > > > To: Seaside - general discussion > > > Subject: Re: [Seaside] [ANN] new Seaside homepage > > > > > > That's why I favour "the renegade web framework". Sounds less > > > negative. > > > > > > When devising a slogan, it is very important to pay > > attention to the > > > emotions (subtle or otherwise) that it evokes. > > > "Visceral impact" is everything! > > > > > > Regards, > > > Richard > > > > Less negative to whom? To a manager deciding whether to > > allow it or not, I'd think that slogan does more harm than good. > > > > When I first started using Seaside, there was a "what the > > fuck" reaction. > > > > Then came pain, as I realized all the crap I used to do felt hard. > > > > Then came the "Aha!", as I realized I didn't need to do all > > that crap anymore. > > > > Then came the "Ahhhhhhhhhh......" as I settled down and > > realized what a pleasure it write applications with real > > components, that were actually composeable, in a framework > > that unlike all the rest, was truly object oriented. Object > > oriented in the Smalltalk sense, the only language that > > actually knows what Object Oriented really means. For the > > most part, that meant no more cookies, no more query strings, > > no more templates, and no more pages, just components calling > > components. > > > > Then I quit my corporate job and moved to a smaller company > > for less pay that would allow me to use the technology of my > > choosing rather than force me to work with established tools. > > Best decision I've ever made, I've never been happier with work. > > > > Seaside isn't a renegade web framework, it's a Zen web > > framework for those tired of the suffering imposed upon us by > > standard web development. Seaside is enlightenment come to the web. > > > > Seaside is to manual state management what garbage collectors > > were to manual memory management. Many scream foul, others > > scream about scalability or speed, but history repeats > > itself, and just as before, automation and ease of use are > > king, and computers keep getting faster. Those who don't get > > on board will simply be displaced by those who do. > > > > Ramon Leon > > http://onsmalltalk.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Seaside mailing list > > [hidden email] > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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Hi, here are my 2 cents...
It's about holidays, seaside, sun, relaxation.... Of course, it's about web dev but web dev is a bit redundant and heavy... and web isn't enough... (enlight the web... = sort of flash ?). Anyway here are my thoughts: ---- Take a break, fresh your web dev experience... Relax, take it* easy... (*web dev) Enlight your web development experience... Give web dev some holidays... / Bring web dev in holidays... Sit down and enjoy the beauty... (melody?) Sit down and enjoy the sun*... :) (* we mean the genuine one) ----- I like to put an asterisk in the slogan. It could be the sea star and may avoid to put web dev in it... Also, we could use it to report what is web development a la seaside, by components... Cédrick _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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