[ANN] new Seaside homepage

"Flow control simplified"
"Desktop flow control for the web"
"Desktop-style programming for the web"

]{evin




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<sorrycantresist>
 If only we'd put as much community effort into documentation ;)
</sorrycantresist>

Cheers!

-Boris

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Thank you.
too
> long to
> remember in "one shot" which is kind of requirement to wake up
> emotions.
> What about exploring combinatory of the good ideas posted? The
> shorter
> version of yours *multiplied* by the one that talks about
components other
> combinations. Here some of them:
>        "web components dynamized" (sadly dinamiZed is a
cacophonic apps." ? http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
> <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside>
>
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On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 16:26:24 +0200, Boris Popov wrote:

> <sorrycantresist>
>  If only we'd put as much community effort into documentation ;)
> </sorrycantresist>

Well, there are things which are of tremendous importance, and everybody  
seems to always have saved some time/energy for that :)

> Cheers!
>
> -Boris
>


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Yest Boris, you're so rigth but right now we have the chance of make this
thing right, right? So what about putting our effort now on this. It will
last for the long run.

        cheers !

Sebastian Sastre
 

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Nah, it was just a joke. I noticed this on real projects as well,
however, you should have seen some of the demos we did early on where we
would show off the application, walk through a ton of terminals and
reports only to get gleeful cheers when one single report at the end had
cute little country flags corresponding to the destination of each
payment in the list :)

Cheers!

-Boris

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:seaside-
> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sebastian Sastre
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:00 AM
> To: 'Seaside - general discussion'
> Subject: RE: [Seaside] [ANN] new Seaside homepage
>
> Yest Boris, you're so rigth but right now we have the chance of make
this
> thing right, right? So what about putting our effort now on this. It
will <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside> _______________________________________________
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Prime example of a bike shed discussion.

2007/7/16, Boris Popov <[hidden email]>: _______________________________________________
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2007/7/15, Richard K Eng <[hidden email]>:
> Is it permissible for me to use the "powered by seaside*" logo in my
> commercial website?

If it runs on Seaside, sure.

> If so, how can I obtain the logo? I tried to "Save
> Picture As..." but it's not actually a downloadable image.

It's a background image, you can get it from:
http://seaside.seasidehosting.st/resources/styles/foot.png
and have to crop it.

Sorry, we don't have any updated logos/buttons at the moment.

> Of course, I don't *have to* to insert a Seaside logo into my website. I
> just thought it'd be nice to provide some free advertising for you guys...

Our aim is that you do it because it's a quality sign ;)

Philippe

> Thanks,
> Richard
>
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Seaside - Web Dynamite!

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I guess I can wait for the updated logos. My commercial website probably
won't go live till next spring...

Regards,
Richard


On 7/16/07 12:20 PM, "Philippe Marschall" <[hidden email]>
wrote:


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On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 09:14:23 -0700, Philippe Marschall  
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> bike shed discussion

I was thinking it was more of a campfire ghost story. It's not so much  
that we all have opinions as it is fun to take a turn at it.
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Yeah, your words kind of capture the moment. This "capturing moments" skills
are the ones we need to apply to our seaside experiences and we will
succeed. I'm confident that this group will archieve that.

        All the best,

Sebastian Sastre
PS: I've also hope that the ghosts of the story where the good ones kind :P

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Hi all,

Yesterday I thought a little about everything that could make a more
efficient message/slogan for the seaside website (awaiting the ad: "Seen
On TV")...

It's just my 2 cents and I am not a native english speaker. Part of
feelings, part of knowledge, I made a light pdf on a web reposit showing
my instant ideas about two slogans (excuse me for the bad presentation,
I did this quickly):

http://hondana.net/Resources/Texts/Printables/ST/seaside.pdf

Have a look at this! I hope my english is quite correct. It's pure
brainstorm according the previous thoughts of Cédrick, Ramon and
Sébastien...

My final slogan for Seaside is:
"Free your mind... Give your web a conscience!"

I think it's not too bad idea. How does that grab you?
"Free your mind": with the easy development tools with a high level
abstraction, I free my mind of javascript, htmtl, xml... and I just
build a web site with components. With this reusability, I can start
from low level parts or high end tools like Pier; I can build it like
my child using Lego pieces.
"Give your web a concscience!": not only because of the living aspect of
smalltalk, the seaside web architecture got a kind of conscience, every
link is dynamically created and maintained by the server which records
states of sessions like myself, I remember what I said before to give
my thoughts a consistency. With Seaside, it's the WWW of Frankenstein (more
Edward scissorhands indeed...).

I like the idea of a contest between the seaside users.

Regards,

--
Martial


Cdrick Bler a écrit :
| Hi, here are my 2 cents...
|
| It's about holidays, seaside, sun, relaxation.... Of course, it's about
| web dev but web dev is a bit redundant and heavy... and web isn't
| enough... (enlight the web... = sort of flash ?).
|
| Anyway here are my thoughts:
|
| ----
| Take a break, fresh your web dev experience...
|
| Relax, take it* easy...  (*web dev)      
| Enlight your web development experience...
| Give web dev some holidays... /  Bring web dev in holidays...
|
| Sit down and enjoy the beauty... (melody?)
| Sit down and enjoy the sun*... :)   (* we mean the genuine one)
|
| -----
|
| I like to put an asterisk in the slogan. It could be the sea star and
| may avoid to put web dev in it... Also, we could use it to report what
| is web development a la seaside, by components...
|
| Cédrick
|
|
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I like the "Free your mind... Give your Web a Conscience"

On 7/17/07, Martial Boniou <[hidden email]> wrote:

--
Jason Rogers

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live;
yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life
which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of
the Son of God, who loved me, and gave
himself for me."
    Galatians 2:20
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Jason Rogers wrote:
> I like the "Free your mind... Give your Web a Conscience"
>
how about give your Web a holiday!

Keith
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Keith, think as manager (also) ;)

        cheers,

Sebastian

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(it's kind of long but useful to reflect)

For some reason I'm unable to open your PDF. Two messages for one slogan
will be too much one message takes strengh to the other making both weaker
(to remember among other things). I think we can get only the escencial part
of your proposal: the first one, because the second is trivially
contextualized by the simple fact of starting to use seaside. That
guarantees you will know that is for web dev and note that it's not
guaranteed that a curious person will try it with an open mind.

By mentioning it *in the slogan* we are passing the message of: "Who know
the technology concluded that having a "free mind" have the importance of
being in the slogan for using Seaside".

Dam! it's so simple that delights! I think we had here something that could
really pass a message that we need to pass. The "Free your mind..." does the
job, that is an abolutely key thing, simple, short, positive, affirmative,
intellectual but also use emotion subtletly and that everybody can
understand all at the same time!!! Wow ! This really could work!

See this metaphore we can construct with all this: picture the ocean, big,
alive, enviromental, it's a whole system with it's beauty and it's dangers.
Now at the beach is you (any actor: users, developers, managers and
investors) with the chance of using a technology that is the key of that
freedom (all stakeholders love freedom) a freedom big as the ocean because
this is internet applications development freedom. Now the Seaside is that
door. The free your mind thing will also be suggested graphically by
pictures of beauty oceans (an open mind can be beauty and big and free as an
ocean). So qe have a case here in wich also the marketing trend is
compatible.

And if we think well, in practice, when users will develop with it they will
need open- mindness as kind of requeriment to embrace such a different
technology.

People usually react with neophobia and scares the new (even tecno people
can be like this) but the prhase is informative and gentle at that regard
(and at the same time!). Emotionally sounds to me kind of gently (note that
is not agresively) encouraging even if it's a lot different to what I
previously know. This is very important because, as we saw with Ramon Leon
experience, people who choose Seaside can change significatively it's
lifestyle by embracing Seaside. There will be people that will be willing to
embrace the costs of that change and that will not. So not being aggressive
at that point guarantees transparency of our part because our attitude is
informative and not manipulative.

If a new user that came from java ruby or whatever, with the stories that
he/she will hear about seaside this person will be gaining willingness to
embrace Seaside even if it's so different and the slogan will "protect" that
willingness when the individual have difficulties (to keep open-mindness to
Seaside and Smalltalk itself). So it suggest kindly to the person that
should be persistently willing to the new which we know is good but they
will not for a while. A while, that will have the duration that they need to
experiment enough "aha" effects. Effects which are pragmatically guaranteed
by using Smalltalk for enough time.

I give two thumbs up stand up with claps and shouting "bravo!" to this:

                                Seaside
                                "Free your mind..."

        all the best,

Sebastian Sastre
PS: I'm still amazed with the possibility using all this information with
such a precise message in 3 easily understandable words!
 

 > -----Mensaje original-----
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> My final slogan for Seaside is:
> "Free your mind... Give your web a conscience!"

"Free your mind", while nice sounding, is a direct quote from the movie the
Matrix, and so as a slogan sounds less than original and possibly a bit
cheesy.

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> > My final slogan for Seaside is:
> > "Free your mind... Give your web a conscience!"
>
> "Free your mind", while nice sounding, is a direct quote from
> the movie the Matrix, and so as a slogan sounds less than
> original and possibly a bit cheesy.
>
As I see priorities, first you have message comunication accuracy and only
then originality, which is used as a good taste touch of decoration.

I agree that it could be read as caming from Matrix and in fact is kind of
compatible in some way. Specially for the tecnology people. Remember
Morpheus telling Neo "Free your mind..." now imagine he telling him "free it
from what internet development should never had to be".

Cheers,

Sebastian
PS1: Some old values are just renewed in the form (cosmetic) not in the
content (escence)
PS2: If we agree that the line is correct we can still search for
alternatives inside the same line of thought. You are good for writting so
I'm sure you can propose a couple ;)

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On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 09:26:06 -0700, Ramon Leon <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

>> My final slogan for Seaside is:
>> "Free your mind... Give your web a conscience!"
>
> "Free your mind", while nice sounding, is a direct quote from the movie  
> the Matrix, and so as a slogan sounds less than original and possibly a  
> bit
> cheesy.

Long before "The Matrix", Joe Bob Briggs used to end his readings of  
letters from prison with "Free your mind...and your butt will follow."  
Which itself was an ironic take on an old aphorism(?). Here's a 1971 album  
with a similar title:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Your_Mind...And_Your_Ass_Will_Follow

So, it's more than a little tired (and was when used in the Matrix).

Now, if you twist it a little, there might be some potential. For (a bad)  
example, "Free your MIME".
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I'm an utter nubee, but how about "SmallTalk, not <blah>blah</blah>"
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