Could we fix the web site
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J J wrote:
> > Well what do other people do? Haskell is pretty popular these days. > Here is their site: > http://haskell.org > http://www.python.org/ has 'about python' first. http://www.java.com is just ads and presentations http://www.erlang.org is just news http://www.perl.org is a table/menu of links and then news http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/vbasic/default.aspx is news/tutorials and ads http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/vcsharp/default.aspx is news/tutorials There seems there is no general consensus about what should be first. But if the majority of Squeakers think the 'about' should be fist it's easy to change. I'm not sure about getting just headlines though... Brad? Karl > > >> From: Joshua Gargus <[hidden email]> >> Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers >> list<[hidden email]> >> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers >> list<[hidden email]> >> Subject: Re: Could we fix the web site >> Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 12:00:05 -0800 >> >> Stephane makes a good point. If we want http://squeak.org to be the >> public face of Squeak to the outside world, then the news feeds >> should absolutely not appear at the very top. Instead, the Welcome! >> section should come first to give a basic understanding of the entire >> site. That much is clear (right? if not, why?) >> >> We could then go on to debate some more ambiguous decisions. For >> example, within the news section, I would put the squeak.org-specific >> "Posted News" above the external "News Feeds". However, I have other >> things to do this fine Saturday than to push hard on that point, or >> similar ones. >> >> Happy weekend Squeaking, >> Josh >> >> >> On Jan 6, 2007, at 10:28 AM, stephane ducasse wrote: >> >>> Karl >>> >>> really I'm quite annoyed. I cannot tell you all the story behind my >>> mail but this is not a simple idiot remark. >>> Can't we get the welcome paragraph in the first place? >>> Should I really totally boycott Squeak? >>> Don't you understand that we are in a world where people communicate >>> and judge on form? >>> >>> News Feed as a title of the first item of the page that describes >>> squeak is not a smart choice. For somehow not knowing at all >>> what squeak is about and that does not really care about getting >>> involved but just want to give a glance. >>> >>> Then there are 5 typos in the following text. So the fact that we do >>> not control (or may be somebody edited the text and the list by hand) >>> what is published there would push us to be cautious and not put it >>> up front. >>> >>> "Croquet Edit and Create 3d Objects >>> Howard Stearns reciently replyed to a question from Mathieu. I >>> thought I’d reporduce his response here. Howard give a lot of very >>> good information about Croquet support for third party tools...." >>> >>> So what I suggest is to swap the welcome and the news feeds. I think >>> that this is important. >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> On 6 janv. 07, at 18:53, Karl wrote: >>> >>>> stephane ducasse wrote: >>>>> Hi karl >>>>> >>>>> my point is about the place of the news on the web site. I think >>>>> that we need something that anybody (and certainly someone >>>>> evaluating me can understand). When people click on my cv on the >>>>> squeak web site, it should be great. >>>>> And the news section should not be the top items. Or I can remove >>>>> all the links I have on my sites and cv to squeak.org but this >>>>> would be sad because imagine a person not knowing anything about >>>>> squeak going to the site and reading the first paragraph right now. >>>> The first paragraph is about the OLPC which has Squeak as part of >>>> it's software. I would consider that a very big news item. >>>> The frontpage got very static and nobody updated it and nobody >>>> wants to lead the web team so this was a good solution for us, >>>> since a webpage that newer changes is a dead webpage, at least in >>>> my book. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> The news feed is from news.squeak.org so if you join the news >>>>>> team you will be able to post directly. >>>>> >>>>> I do not want. I have nothing against news and I have nothing to say. >>>> I find that hard to believe ;-) >>>> Karl >>>>> >>>>>> Typos and other standards of posting to the news feed should >>>>>> probably be addressed to the news team. >>>>>> Karl >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football > Page www.live.com/?addtemplate=football&icid=T001MSN30A0701 > > > |
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In reply to this post by Joshua Gargus-2
Joshua Gargus writes:
> Stephane makes a good point. If we want http://squeak.org to be the > public face of Squeak to the outside world, then the news feeds > should absolutely not appear at the very top. Instead, the Welcome! > section should come first to give a basic understanding of the entire > site. That much is clear (right? if not, why?) I'd agree that the typos aren't ideal but having regular news is a great sign of life. Without it, the page and Squeak risk looking abandoned. Also the page should be useful for experienced Squeakers as well. If it's only for beginners it risks becoming out of date. It needs knowledgeable readers to spot the mistakes and opportunities for improvement. Overall, I like the current Squeak site. Sure it could be better and mistakes do happen but it looks decent and has a reasonable range of information. Thanks to both the news and web teams. Bryce |
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[hidden email] wrote:
> Overall, I like the current Squeak site. Sure it could be better and > mistakes do happen but it looks decent and has a reasonable range of > information. Thanks to both the news and web teams. +1 Cheers, - Andreas |
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Andreas Raab a écrit :
> [hidden email] wrote: >> Overall, I like the current Squeak site. Sure it could be better and >> mistakes do happen but it looks decent and has a reasonable range of >> information. Thanks to both the news and web teams. > > +1 > > Cheers, > - Andreas > > Indeed ? I remeber that when I saw a site that start with the news I always get ungry. I want to know what the purpos and I get bother to search for the informations. It should take 1s to make this little fix. No? Math |
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In reply to this post by Andreas.Raab
On Sat, Jan 06, 2007 at 11:06:29PM +0100, Andreas Raab wrote:
> [hidden email] wrote: > >Overall, I like the current Squeak site. Sure it could be better and > >mistakes do happen but it looks decent and has a reasonable range of > >information. Thanks to both the news and web teams. > > +1 > > Cheers, > - Andreas I like it too. I don't have any strong opinion as to whether the "news" or "welcome" should be on top, but either way it's a useful and nicely presented site, and I appreciate all the work from the news and web teams (I have a hunch that it's a lot of work). Dave |
Re: Could we fix the web site
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In reply to this post by Andreas.Raab
Another +1.
I hope that I didn't sound negative about the web site. I think that it would clearly benefit from having "Welcome!" at the top, but overall the site is good, and a tremendous improvement over what we had in the past. Josh On Jan 6, 2007, at 2:06 PM, Andreas Raab wrote: > [hidden email] wrote: >> Overall, I like the current Squeak site. Sure it could be better and >> mistakes do happen but it looks decent and has a reasonable range of >> information. Thanks to both the news and web teams. > > +1 > > Cheers, > - Andreas > |
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Joshua Gargus skrev:
> Another +1. > > I hope that I didn't sound negative about the web site. I think that > it would clearly benefit from having "Welcome!" at the top, but > overall the site is good, and a tremendous improvement over what we > had in the past. > > Josh Ok, I changed it a little. What do you think ? Karl > > > > On Jan 6, 2007, at 2:06 PM, Andreas Raab wrote: > >> [hidden email] wrote: >>> Overall, I like the current Squeak site. Sure it could be better and >>> mistakes do happen but it looks decent and has a reasonable range of >>> information. Thanks to both the news and web teams. >> >> +1 >> >> Cheers, >> - Andreas >> > > > |
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In reply to this post by karl-8
Karl wrote:
> J J wrote: >> >> Well what do other people do? Haskell is pretty popular these days. >> Here is their site: >> http://haskell.org >> > http://www.python.org/ has 'about python' first. > http://www.java.com is just ads and presentations > http://www.erlang.org is just news > http://www.perl.org is a table/menu of links and then news > http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/vbasic/default.aspx is news/tutorials > and ads > http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/vcsharp/default.aspx is news/tutorials > > There seems there is no general consensus about what should be first. > But if the majority of Squeakers think the 'about' should be fist it's > easy to change. > I'm not sure about getting just headlines though... Brad? adjust how much text is displayed. I like some text displayed because it gives the reader a flavor of what is there and makes it more enticing. It sounds like people have more ideas than just what goes first on the front page. So far, it appears that the comments are not about specific pages but about focus and content, and the overall needs that are not being addressed. Maybe the web team should gather opinions from the squeak community? We are doing that here, but maybe we need to compose an email and ask more specifically. brad |
RE: Could we fix the web site
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Why not put news titles on the side. If a user wants
to read an article they can click on the link. Also, make sure to expire the news so you don't see news events that are more than 3 months old. Showing old news is another sign of a stagnent site. Terry =========================================================== Terry Raymond Smalltalk Professional Debug Package Crafted Smalltalk 80 Lazywood Ln. Tiverton, RI 02878 (401) 624-4517 [hidden email] <http://www.craftedsmalltalk.com> =========================================================== > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:squeak-dev- > [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Brad Fuller > Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 6:13 PM > To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list > Subject: Re: Could we fix the web site > > Karl wrote: > > J J wrote: > >> > >> Well what do other people do? Haskell is pretty popular these days. > >> Here is their site: > >> http://haskell.org > >> > > http://www.python.org/ has 'about python' first. > > http://www.java.com is just ads and presentations > > http://www.erlang.org is just news > > http://www.perl.org is a table/menu of links and then news > > http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/vbasic/default.aspx is news/tutorials > > and ads > > http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/vcsharp/default.aspx is news/tutorials > > > > There seems there is no general consensus about what should be first. > > But if the majority of Squeakers think the 'about' should be fist it's > > easy to change. > > I'm not sure about getting just headlines though... Brad? > Yeah, we can show just titles (I just changed it so you could see) or > adjust how much text is displayed. > I like some text displayed because it gives the reader a flavor of what > is there and makes it more enticing. > > It sounds like people have more ideas than just what goes first on the > front page. So far, it appears that the comments are not about specific > pages but about focus and content, and the overall needs that are not > being addressed. Maybe the web team should gather opinions from the > squeak community? We are doing that here, but maybe we need to compose > an email and ask more specifically. > > brad |
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In reply to this post by Brad Fuller-3
Brad Fuller wrote:
> Karl wrote: >> J J wrote: >>> >>> Well what do other people do? Haskell is pretty popular these days. >>> Here is their site: >>> http://haskell.org >>> >> http://www.python.org/ has 'about python' first. >> http://www.java.com is just ads and presentations >> http://www.erlang.org is just news >> http://www.perl.org is a table/menu of links and then news >> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/vbasic/default.aspx is news/tutorials >> and ads >> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/vcsharp/default.aspx is news/tutorials >> >> There seems there is no general consensus about what should be first. >> But if the majority of Squeakers think the 'about' should be fist it's >> easy to change. >> I'm not sure about getting just headlines though... Brad? > Yeah, we can show just titles (I just changed it so you could see) |
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In reply to this post by tblanchard
On 6-Jan-07, at 12:40 PM, Todd Blanchard wrote: > Actually - these are the guys to catch: > http://www.rubyonrails.org/ It certainly has a good clean and yet fascinating layout and style tim -- tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Always try to be modest. And be damn proud of it! |
Re: Could we fix the web site
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In reply to this post by karl-8
I think it's an improvement. Stephane?
Thanks Karl! Josh On Jan 6, 2007, at 2:51 PM, karl wrote: > Joshua Gargus skrev: >> Another +1. >> >> I hope that I didn't sound negative about the web site. I think >> that it would clearly benefit from having "Welcome!" at the top, >> but overall the site is good, and a tremendous improvement over >> what we had in the past. >> >> Josh > Ok, I changed it a little. What do you think ? > Karl >> >> >> >> On Jan 6, 2007, at 2:06 PM, Andreas Raab wrote: >> >>> [hidden email] wrote: >>>> Overall, I like the current Squeak site. Sure it could be better >>>> and >>>> mistakes do happen but it looks decent and has a reasonable >>>> range of >>>> information. Thanks to both the news and web teams. >>> >>> +1 >>> >>> Cheers, >>> - Andreas >>> >> >> >> > > |
Re: Could we fix the web site
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In reply to this post by timrowledge
> If possible, could we edit the license page to include the news
> about the license being changed? I know the process is not complete > yet but it is an important point, at least to all those perpetual > complainers about such matters. I dare say there'll be people > complaining that the Apache license isn't good enough even after > all the work... NOoooooo this is too cool this license change. :) we got burnt by OSS event organizers so much time because of the license that now we will smash them with the new one :) |
Re: Could we fix the web site
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In reply to this post by tblanchard
Really professional.
Good sense of communication The sentence just below the title, the large logos and the overall style. > Actually - these are the guys to catch: > http://www.rubyonrails.org/ Stef |
Re: Could we fix the web site
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In reply to this post by karl-8
>>
> Welcome :-) I'll try to add you to the password lists etc. (I'm not > sure I remember how to do that...) > Squeak.org and the swiki are different because people wanted a > small, easy intro to the Squeakworld. > > As you know the swiki is neither :-) I think it is a nice distinction. > The documentation pages need a lot of attention, so you are > welcome to work on them. > I don't think we should move all content over to Squeak.org from > the swiki as most users don't have access to squeak.org editing and > therefore editing will be a major obstacle. > > The distinction between the doc team and web team would be that > there were some talk about linking the doc into the image somehow. > But I agree, we have much of the same purpose, documenting Squeak. > > I'm not sure how well Pier would scale as a wiki. It is quite > different than both Smallwiki and Swiki and it I haven't gotten > used to it yet. Smallwiki is also quite different from Swiki. > > I'm not sure how to give you a squeak.org image as it contains > passwords etc. so I can't post it publicly. Access to the server is > provided by the Box admins. > > Hope we will have a good time working together. > > Karl ESUG proposed to lukas to get payed to produce a better version of Pier that ESUG (and everybody) could use to build website. Now lukas is totally fully booked. We wanted to have a file/database back end with external resources management, an admin, and easy install download. We hope that lukas will get some time for Pier. So at least you know that I was not saying that we should change the underlying system. just swap two paragraphs. Stef |
Re: Could we fix the web site
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In reply to this post by karl-8
better.
If we could remove the typos on the first top quarter of the page it would be great. Stef On 6 janv. 07, at 23:51, karl wrote: > Joshua Gargus skrev: >> Another +1. >> >> I hope that I didn't sound negative about the web site. I think >> that it would clearly benefit from having "Welcome!" at the top, >> but overall the site is good, and a tremendous improvement over >> what we had in the past. >> >> Josh > Ok, I changed it a little. What do you think ? > Karl >> >> >> >> On Jan 6, 2007, at 2:06 PM, Andreas Raab wrote: >> >>> [hidden email] wrote: >>>> Overall, I like the current Squeak site. Sure it could be better >>>> and >>>> mistakes do happen but it looks decent and has a reasonable >>>> range of >>>> information. Thanks to both the news and web teams. >>> >>> +1 >>> >>> Cheers, >>> - Andreas >>> >> >> >> > > > |
Re: Could we fix the web site
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In reply to this post by timrowledge
>
>> Actually - these are the guys to catch: >> http://www.rubyonrails.org/ > It certainly has a good clean and yet fascinating layout and style Yes this is really nice to see the evolution of web style design. Some are getting pure and really slick. Stef |
Re: Could we fix the web site
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In reply to this post by Joshua Gargus-2
> I think it's an improvement. Stephane?
Yes! May be putting the news on the side would be cool. |
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In reply to this post by Bryce Kampjes
I just had a look at the squeak web site and I have to say, I like it. It
is unique and has everything in a concise layout. The only thing I would suggest is; can we get some kind of date on the news items (e.g. Weekly Squeak [week 2, 2007]). I don't know about others, but the first thing I do in evaluating a site is check for dates. I saw some but it wouldn't hurt to relate them to the weekly squeak as well. And Step, I'm afraid I didn't really understand your concerns. Is it just about typos showing up in the news? Would you mind restating it? Thanks, J >From: <[hidden email]> >Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers >list<[hidden email]> >To: The general-purpose Squeak developers >list<[hidden email]> >Subject: Re: Could we fix the web site >Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 21:49:45 +0000 > >Joshua Gargus writes: > > Stephane makes a good point. If we want http://squeak.org to be the > > public face of Squeak to the outside world, then the news feeds > > should absolutely not appear at the very top. Instead, the Welcome! > > section should come first to give a basic understanding of the entire > > site. That much is clear (right? if not, why?) > >I'd agree that the typos aren't ideal but having regular news is >a great sign of life. Without it, the page and Squeak risk looking >abandoned. > >Also the page should be useful for experienced Squeakers as well. If >it's only for beginners it risks becoming out of date. It needs >knowledgeable readers to spot the mistakes and opportunities for >improvement. > >Overall, I like the current Squeak site. Sure it could be better and >mistakes do happen but it looks decent and has a reasonable range of >information. Thanks to both the news and web teams. > >Bryce > _________________________________________________________________ The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the scoop. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline2 |
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In reply to this post by karl-8
The sites I looked at just had a summary first, which squeak.org did when I
looked. Maybe add a little bit more? I don't think the whole about needs to go up there as it is kind of long. >From: Karl <[hidden email]> >Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers >list<[hidden email]> >To: The general-purpose Squeak developers >list<[hidden email]> >Subject: Re: Could we fix the web site >Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 22:47:54 +0100 > >J J wrote: >> >>Well what do other people do? Haskell is pretty popular these days. Here >>is their site: >>http://haskell.org >> >http://www.python.org/ has 'about python' first. >http://www.java.com is just ads and presentations >http://www.erlang.org is just news >http://www.perl.org is a table/menu of links and then news >http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/vbasic/default.aspx is news/tutorials >and ads >http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/vcsharp/default.aspx is news/tutorials > >There seems there is no general consensus about what should be first. >But if the majority of Squeakers think the 'about' should be fist it's >easy to change. >I'm not sure about getting just headlines though... Brad? >Karl > >> >> >>>From: Joshua Gargus <[hidden email]> >>>Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers >>>list<[hidden email]> >>>To: The general-purpose Squeak developers >>>list<[hidden email]> >>>Subject: Re: Could we fix the web site >>>Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 12:00:05 -0800 >>> >>>Stephane makes a good point. If we want http://squeak.org to be the >>>public face of Squeak to the outside world, then the news feeds should >>>absolutely not appear at the very top. Instead, the Welcome! section >>>should come first to give a basic understanding of the entire site. That >>>much is clear (right? if not, why?) >>> >>>We could then go on to debate some more ambiguous decisions. For example, >>>within the news section, I would put the squeak.org-specific "Posted >>>News" above the external "News Feeds". However, I have other things to do >>>this fine Saturday than to push hard on that point, or similar ones. >>> >>>Happy weekend Squeaking, >>>Josh >>> >>> >>>On Jan 6, 2007, at 10:28 AM, stephane ducasse wrote: >>> >>>>Karl >>>> >>>>really I'm quite annoyed. I cannot tell you all the story behind my mail >>>>but this is not a simple idiot remark. >>>>Can't we get the welcome paragraph in the first place? >>>>Should I really totally boycott Squeak? >>>>Don't you understand that we are in a world where people communicate and >>>>judge on form? >>>> >>>>News Feed as a title of the first item of the page that describes squeak >>>>is not a smart choice. For somehow not knowing at all >>>>what squeak is about and that does not really care about getting >>>>involved but just want to give a glance. >>>> >>>>Then there are 5 typos in the following text. So the fact that we do not >>>>control (or may be somebody edited the text and the list by hand) >>>>what is published there would push us to be cautious and not put it up >>>>front. >>>> >>>>"Croquet Edit and Create 3d Objects >>>>Howard Stearns reciently replyed to a question from Mathieu. I thought >>>>Id reporduce his response here. Howard give a lot of very good >>>>information about Croquet support for third party tools...." >>>> >>>>So what I suggest is to swap the welcome and the news feeds. I think >>>>that this is important. >>>> >>>>Stef >>>> >>>>On 6 janv. 07, at 18:53, Karl wrote: >>>> >>>>>stephane ducasse wrote: >>>>>>Hi karl >>>>>> >>>>>>my point is about the place of the news on the web site. I think that >>>>>>we need something that anybody (and certainly someone >>>>>>evaluating me can understand). When people click on my cv on the >>>>>>squeak web site, it should be great. >>>>>>And the news section should not be the top items. Or I can remove all >>>>>>the links I have on my sites and cv to squeak.org but this >>>>>>would be sad because imagine a person not knowing anything about >>>>>>squeak going to the site and reading the first paragraph right now. >>>>>The first paragraph is about the OLPC which has Squeak as part of it's >>>>>software. I would consider that a very big news item. >>>>>The frontpage got very static and nobody updated it and nobody wants to >>>>>lead the web team so this was a good solution for us, since a webpage >>>>>that newer changes is a dead webpage, at least in my book. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Stef >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>The news feed is from news.squeak.org so if you join the news team >>>>>>>you will be able to post directly. >>>>>> >>>>>>I do not want. I have nothing against news and I have nothing to say. >>>>>I find that hard to believe ;-) >>>>>Karl >>>>>> >>>>>>>Typos and other standards of posting to the news feed should probably >>>>>>>be addressed to the news team. >>>>>>>Karl >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football Page >>www.live.com/?addtemplate=football&icid=T001MSN30A0701 >> >> >> > > > _________________________________________________________________ Get FREE Web site and company branded e-mail from Microsoft Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ |
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