Could we fix the web site
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Brad Fuller skrev:
> >>> >>> I'm not sure about getting just headlines though... Brad? >> Yeah, we can show just titles (I just changed it so you could see) > Karl: it's on the test site > Looks good to me. Use it on the main page. Karl |
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In reply to this post by J J-6
Just to clarify what I meant:
I like it almost exactly as it is. The only thing I would personally change would be to associate the weekly squeak with the week it is about and (maybe) add a couple of sentences to the summary. I like the about where it is. It should be on the front page, but if it is at the top it will push the news down off the screen. For the ADD crowd we need that date right on the first page without scrolling. If it isn't current, it isn't relevant so the about doesn't matter. As for typos, how do you enter the news? If you use the web browser, then download Mozilla 2. It has a spell check built in. That's why I am able to spell all of the sudden (now if they would just add a grammar checker I could appear educated). >From: "J J" <[hidden email]> >Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers >list<[hidden email]> >To: [hidden email] >Subject: Re: Could we fix the web site >Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 09:19:39 +0000 > >The sites I looked at just had a summary first, which squeak.org did when I >looked. Maybe add a little bit more? I don't think the whole about needs >to go up there as it is kind of long. > > >>From: Karl <[hidden email]> >>Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers >>list<[hidden email]> >>To: The general-purpose Squeak developers >>list<[hidden email]> >>Subject: Re: Could we fix the web site >>Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 22:47:54 +0100 >> >>J J wrote: >>> >>>Well what do other people do? Haskell is pretty popular these days. Here >>>is their site: >>>http://haskell.org >>> >>http://www.python.org/ has 'about python' first. >>http://www.java.com is just ads and presentations >>http://www.erlang.org is just news >>http://www.perl.org is a table/menu of links and then news >>http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/vbasic/default.aspx is news/tutorials >>and ads >>http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/vcsharp/default.aspx is news/tutorials >> >>There seems there is no general consensus about what should be first. >>But if the majority of Squeakers think the 'about' should be fist it's >>easy to change. >>I'm not sure about getting just headlines though... Brad? >>Karl >> >>> >>> >>>>From: Joshua Gargus <[hidden email]> >>>>Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers >>>>list<[hidden email]> >>>>To: The general-purpose Squeak developers >>>>list<[hidden email]> >>>>Subject: Re: Could we fix the web site >>>>Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 12:00:05 -0800 >>>> >>>>Stephane makes a good point. If we want http://squeak.org to be the >>>>public face of Squeak to the outside world, then the news feeds should >>>>absolutely not appear at the very top. Instead, the Welcome! section >>>>should come first to give a basic understanding of the entire site. That >>>>much is clear (right? if not, why?) >>>> >>>>We could then go on to debate some more ambiguous decisions. For >>>>example, within the news section, I would put the squeak.org-specific >>>>"Posted News" above the external "News Feeds". However, I have other >>>>things to do this fine Saturday than to push hard on that point, or >>>>similar ones. >>>> >>>>Happy weekend Squeaking, >>>>Josh >>>> >>>> >>>>On Jan 6, 2007, at 10:28 AM, stephane ducasse wrote: >>>> >>>>>Karl >>>>> >>>>>really I'm quite annoyed. I cannot tell you all the story behind my >>>>>mail but this is not a simple idiot remark. >>>>>Can't we get the welcome paragraph in the first place? >>>>>Should I really totally boycott Squeak? >>>>>Don't you understand that we are in a world where people communicate >>>>>and judge on form? >>>>> >>>>>News Feed as a title of the first item of the page that describes >>>>>squeak is not a smart choice. For somehow not knowing at all >>>>>what squeak is about and that does not really care about getting >>>>>involved but just want to give a glance. >>>>> >>>>>Then there are 5 typos in the following text. So the fact that we do >>>>>not control (or may be somebody edited the text and the list by hand) >>>>>what is published there would push us to be cautious and not put it up >>>>>front. >>>>> >>>>>"Croquet Edit and Create 3d Objects >>>>>Howard Stearns reciently replyed to a question from Mathieu. I thought >>>>>Id reporduce his response here. Howard give a lot of very good >>>>>information about Croquet support for third party tools...." >>>>> >>>>>So what I suggest is to swap the welcome and the news feeds. I think >>>>>that this is important. >>>>> >>>>>Stef >>>>> >>>>>On 6 janv. 07, at 18:53, Karl wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>stephane ducasse wrote: >>>>>>>Hi karl >>>>>>> >>>>>>>my point is about the place of the news on the web site. I think that >>>>>>>we need something that anybody (and certainly someone >>>>>>>evaluating me can understand). When people click on my cv on the >>>>>>>squeak web site, it should be great. >>>>>>>And the news section should not be the top items. Or I can remove all >>>>>>>the links I have on my sites and cv to squeak.org but this >>>>>>>would be sad because imagine a person not knowing anything about >>>>>>>squeak going to the site and reading the first paragraph right now. >>>>>>The first paragraph is about the OLPC which has Squeak as part of it's >>>>>>software. I would consider that a very big news item. >>>>>>The frontpage got very static and nobody updated it and nobody wants >>>>>>to lead the web team so this was a good solution for us, since a >>>>>>webpage that newer changes is a dead webpage, at least in my book. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Stef >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>The news feed is from news.squeak.org so if you join the news team >>>>>>>>you will be able to post directly. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I do not want. I have nothing against news and I have nothing to say. >>>>>>I find that hard to believe ;-) >>>>>>Karl >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Typos and other standards of posting to the news feed should >>>>>>>>probably be addressed to the news team. >>>>>>>>Karl >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>_________________________________________________________________ >>>Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football Page >>>www.live.com/?addtemplate=football&icid=T001MSN30A0701 >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get FREE Web site and company branded e-mail from Microsoft Office Live >http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ > > _________________________________________________________________ Your Hotmail address already works to sign into Windows Live Messenger! Get it now http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://get.live.com/messenger/overview |
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In reply to this post by Joshua Gargus-2
On 1/6/07, Joshua Gargus <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Stephane makes a good point. If we want http://squeak.org to be the > public face of Squeak to the outside world, then the news feeds > should absolutely not appear at the very top. Instead, the Welcome! > section should come first to give a basic understanding of the entire > site. That much is clear (right? if not, why?) > It depends. Define your audience first. Then the rest follows suit. 1. Make squeak.org mostly interesting to newcomers: put the blurb on top. 2. Make squeak.org a portal interesting to regulars: put the news on top. An oversimplification, but just making the point that you should define your audience groups and their relative importance before discussing what to put above the fold. Having said that, it's probably not a very good idea to start with a news section that links off-site :). But I agree that a static frontpage makes for a dead website these days so if this is all we're going to get with the current volunteer team, fine with me. Kudos to the web and news teams for an awesome amount of progress in 2006 (and hoping for them to put even more work into it in 2007 :-P). And Stef - sorry, but your style of communication is again not very helpful. Frankly, if you start like that, I could not care less what you put or put not on your resumes, link-wise. |
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In reply to this post by tblanchard
On 1/6/07, Todd Blanchard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Actually - these are the guys to catch: > http://www.rubyonrails.org/ To catch? In case I interpret that as them being competition - I don't see RoR that way. Finally a feasible, well-documented, well-thought-out web framework in a dynamic language that doesn't suck as much as Perl :-). We should be linking to them instead of viewing them as competition! /me mumbles something of standing on the shoulders of giants and wanders away |
Re: Could we fix the web site
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In reply to this post by Cees De Groot
> And Stef - sorry, but your style of communication is again not very
> helpful. Frankly, if you start like that, I could not care less what > you put or put not on your resumes, link-wise. Thanks I really appreciate... but from you it does not matter in fact. This proves to me that I should really do something else. May be if you browse the archive you will notice that I'm the guy that really pushed and worked on setting up the first version of the new web page (it was not that sexy) but of course this does not count. Talking is always easier. Happy new year Cees. Stef |
Re: Could we fix the web site
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In reply to this post by Cees De Groot
Hi Cees,
on Sun, 07 Jan 2007 12:36:27 +0100, you wrote: ... > And Stef - sorry, but your style of communication is again not very > helpful. Frankly, if you start like that, I could not care less what > you put or put not on your resumes, link-wise. "start like that" ? Didn't he just ask if it is possible to make some changes? Cees, this kind of blunder that you wrote is just the "right" stuff for newbees to send them away from the main mailing list (and perhaps from Squeak): Stef has not only done a great job but he is also a great contributor and promotor. Now is this your message: go away activists, Cees could not care less. What criteria do you put up for linking a resume to Squeak pages? What criteria do you put up for allowing to ask for changes to the main web page? /Klaus |
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Klaus D. Witzel wrote:
> on Sun, 07 Jan 2007 12:36:27 +0100, you wrote: >> And Stef - sorry, but your style of communication is again not very >> helpful. Frankly, if you start like that, I could not care less what >> you put or put not on your resumes, link-wise. > > "start like that" ? Didn't he just ask if it is possible to make some > changes? I'll have to say I'm 100% with Cees on this one - I read that message as a threat (I will not link to you unless you change X and Y) and not as a request. Not one bit. Cheers, - Andreas > Cees, this kind of blunder that you wrote is just the "right" stuff for > newbees to send them away from the main mailing list (and perhaps from > Squeak): Stef has not only done a great job but he is also a great > contributor and promotor. Now is this your message: go away activists, > Cees could not care less. > > What criteria do you put up for linking a resume to Squeak pages? What > criteria do you put up for allowing to ask for changes to the main web > page? > > /Klaus > > > |
Re: Could we fix the web site
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Why andreas? My original post was not nice?
" Happy new years. I wish you a lot of fun and success for your squeaking projects. Now I would like to know if this is possible to fix the squeak web site. I was a nice idea to put the news seeds in the web site but but but. - we do not control the contents - some of them are not really squeaking - some of them contain a lot of typos. "Croquet Edit and Create 3d Objects Howard Stearns reciently replyed to a question from Mathieu. I thought I’d reporduce his response here. Howard give a lot of very good information about Croquet support for third party tools...." Sorry but I do not know who is mathieu :) and this give me the impression to get in a private discussion. I want to be **proud** to put a link on http:/www.squeak.org/ on important documents. So could we ut the welcome section right on the top. and the news after the portal. Stef " But this is clear I will stay away from squeak. This is a good year resolution. Stef On 7 janv. 07, at 15:37, Andreas Raab wrote: > Klaus D. Witzel wrote: >> on Sun, 07 Jan 2007 12:36:27 +0100, you wrote: >>> And Stef - sorry, but your style of communication is again not very >>> helpful. Frankly, if you start like that, I could not care less what >>> you put or put not on your resumes, link-wise. >> "start like that" ? Didn't he just ask if it is possible to make >> some changes? > > I'll have to say I'm 100% with Cees on this one - I read that > message as a threat (I will not link to you unless you change X and > Y) and not as a request. Not one bit. > > Cheers, > - Andreas > >> Cees, this kind of blunder that you wrote is just the "right" >> stuff for newbees to send them away from the main mailing list >> (and perhaps from Squeak): Stef has not only done a great job but >> he is also a great contributor and promotor. Now is this your >> message: go away activists, Cees could not care less. >> What criteria do you put up for linking a resume to Squeak pages? >> What criteria do you put up for allowing to ask for changes to the >> main web page? >> /Klaus > > > |
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In reply to this post by Cees De Groot
You misunderstand. Squeak is the better product . I tried RoR and
found it to be like the stone ages. But RoR has GREAT marketing and evangelism. Which is why they have bigger mindshare. We could learn something from them there. Who is the website for? Current Squeakers? I think not so much. You want to attract new users with it. New users don't care about the news - they don't understand it. It is for insiders and it makes us look clubby and not really welcoming. I think the Squeak site looks gorgeous - really pretty - but the order of presentation isn't so good if you are wanting to draw people in. On Jan 7, 2007, at 3:43 AM, Cees de Groot wrote: > On 1/6/07, Todd Blanchard <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Actually - these are the guys to catch: >> http://www.rubyonrails.org/ > > To catch? > > In case I interpret that as them being competition - I don't see RoR > that way. Finally a feasible, well-documented, well-thought-out web > framework in a dynamic language that doesn't suck as much as Perl :-). > We should be linking to them instead of viewing them as competition! > > /me mumbles something of standing on the shoulders of giants and > wanders away > |
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In reply to this post by stephane ducasse
stephane ducasse wrote:
> Why andreas? My original post was not nice? Well, judge for yourself - are these "nice" quotes? "Or I can remove all the links I have on my sites and cv to squeak.org..." "But ok I will remove all my links to squeak.org." "Really I'm quite annoyed. I cannot tell you all the story behind my mail but this is not a simple idiot remark. " And perhaps most importantly if someone points out that Cees is not the only person who read those messages that way, is it "nice" to respond like this? > But this is clear I will stay away from squeak. This is a good year > resolution. Cheers, - Andreas |
Re: Re: Could we fix the web site
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In reply to this post by karl-8
> There seems there is no general consensus about what should be first.
I think there is, but existing implementations are more or less successful. There should be a design pattern for home pages. The audience for a home page is both newcomers or even people wandering by, and people that want to follow the community. Both have different questions when they arrive on the page: newcomers: - what the hell is Squeak ? - where are the screenshots ? - where are the tutorials ? - where do I get/try it ? followers: - where is the latest release ? - what is happening in the community (events, releases, hot projects, misc news) ? - where is the documentation/technical papers ? - where is the source / version control / bugtracker ? - how is the community organized ? (think debian guidelines or friend sites like squeaksource, squeak foundation etc) I like http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/ because it doesn't look academic like haskell (purely aesthetic) nor corporate bs like java or vb (java.sun.com is better than java.com btw), and it's visually clearer than python's page. - big logo that means "yes, this is THE official page" - Ruby is... + small code sample that changes at each reload - news that mean "yes, we,re alive" - big download link - get started / explore / participate sidebar blocks that you see as soon as you spend a few seconds looking at the page. -- Damien Pollet type less, do more [ | ] http://typo.cdlm.fasmz.org |
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In reply to this post by Andreas.Raab
Andreas Raab wrote:
> stephane ducasse wrote: >> Why andreas? My original post was not nice? > > Well, judge for yourself - are these "nice" quotes? "Or I can remove > all the links I have on my sites and cv to squeak.org..." "But ok I > will remove all my links to squeak.org." "Really I'm quite annoyed. I > cannot tell you all the story behind my mail but this is not a simple > idiot remark. " > > And perhaps most importantly if someone points out that Cees is not > the only person who read those messages that way, is it "nice" to > respond like this? > >> But this is clear I will stay away from squeak. This is a good year >> resolution. > > Cheers, > - Andreas nothing "un nice" about these quotes, particularly when they are read "in context". There is nothing un-nice about suggesting that links to squeak.org might be removed from a cv. I would want links from my cv to be fairly static and to know exactly what a prospective employer might be reading. I would put my own description about squeak in for this purpose. Heck even the name "squeak" can be a problem in that respect. Keith Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com |
Re: Could we fix the web site
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thanks keith.
In fact this is basically the only option I have and this was making me sad. Because at the end I would like to be proud of squeak and what we are and did. but form is as important as contents when people are judging you. So already the changes made by karl improved the situation. Stef On 7 janv. 07, at 16:44, Keith Hodges wrote: > Andreas Raab wrote: >> stephane ducasse wrote: >>> Why andreas? My original post was not nice? >> >> Well, judge for yourself - are these "nice" quotes? "Or I can >> remove all the links I have on my sites and cv to squeak.org..." >> "But ok I will remove all my links to squeak.org." "Really I'm >> quite annoyed. I cannot tell you all the story behind my mail but >> this is not a simple idiot remark. " >> >> And perhaps most importantly if someone points out that Cees is >> not the only person who read those messages that way, is it "nice" >> to respond like this? >> >>> But this is clear I will stay away from squeak. This is a good >>> year resolution. >> >> Cheers, >> - Andreas > I dont think that Stef needs to judge for himself at all. There is > nothing "un nice" about these quotes, particularly when they are > read "in context". > > There is nothing un-nice about suggesting that links to squeak.org > might be removed from a cv. I would want links from my cv to be > fairly static and to know exactly what a prospective employer might > be reading. I would put my own description about squeak in for this > purpose. Heck even the name "squeak" can be a problem in that respect. > > Keith > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http:// > uk.messenger.yahoo.com > |
Re: Re: Could we fix the web site
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In reply to this post by Klaus D. Witzel
2007/1/7, Klaus D. Witzel <[hidden email]>:
> Cees, this kind of blunder that you wrote is just the "right" stuff for > newbees to send them away from the main mailing list (and perhaps from > Squeak): Stef has not only done a great job but he is also a great > contributor and promotor. Now is this your message: go away activists, > Cees could not care less. Exactly. I would understand an aggressive answer to a first mail but after a while it's easy to see behind one's writing style and abstract away what could be read as aggressive but wasn't really meant so. We don't have the time or the english skills to write perfect tactful mails, so as readers we should learn to interpret mails. *puts down Captain Obvious costume* -- Damien Pollet type less, do more [ | ] http://typo.cdlm.fasmz.org |
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In reply to this post by keith1y
Keith Hodges wrote:
> I dont think that Stef needs to judge for himself at all. There is > nothing "un nice" about these quotes, particularly when they are read > "in context". I guess that merely goes to show that different people interpret things differently - which after all was my point, namely saying that I read those messages in a quite similar way that Cees did. No more, no less and with that I'm out of this thread ;-) Cheers, - Andreas > There is nothing un-nice about suggesting that links to squeak.org might > be removed from a cv. I would want links from my cv to be fairly static > and to know exactly what a prospective employer might be reading. I > would put my own description about squeak in for this purpose. Heck even > the name "squeak" can be a problem in that respect. > > Keith > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > |
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In reply to this post by Cees De Groot
Cees de Groot wrote:
> > > Having said that, it's probably not a very good idea to start with a > news section that links off-site :). Agreed. It is changed. Links go to a new window (or tab, depending on your browser.) And, dates are also visible (GMT) -- brad fuller www.bradfuller.com |
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In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse-3
well... the squeaky wheel.... The front page of the website has been
updated from comments here. (What I think we need is a PR team to come up with great evangelistic ideas and coordinate messages with the web team, news team and doc team.) -- brad fuller www.bradfuller.com |
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In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse-3
Hello all,
I fixed the typos. (I stop reading the list for a few days and look what happens!) I have a couple of things to say. First I am very aware of how important it is to get the spelling right. I once lost a very big contract because of a typo when my explanation that nobody mentioned it and the software had really been used for over a year was not accepted. I am and remain a very bad speller. I also have no sense of time. People that know when something happened amaze me. Everything I remember feels like yesterday to me. I am using Firefox and it does have a nice spell checker, but I must have used IE for this post. I apologize for the typos. With that out of the way I would also like to say that I am very interested in any and all comments on the news articles that I have been posting. Please feel free to let me know if you have a suggestion or criticism. Also if you notice a typo or grammatical error please let me know. I promise not to take offense. Thanks for supporting the Web, Doc and News Teams! Happy Squeaking, Ron Teitelbaum Squeak News Team Member > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:squeak-dev- > [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse > Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 11:27 AM > To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list > Subject: Could we fix the web site > > Hi all > > Happy new years. I wish you a lot of fun and success for your > squeaking projects. > > > Now I would like to know if this is possible to fix the squeak web site. > I was a nice idea to put the news seeds in the web site but but but. > - we do not control the contents > - some of them are not really squeaking > - some of them contain a lot of typos. > > "Croquet Edit and Create 3d Objects > Howard Stearns reciently replyed to a question from Mathieu. I > thought Id reporduce his response here. Howard give a lot of very > good information about Croquet support for third party tools...." > Sorry but I do not know who is mathieu :) and this give me the > impression to get in a private discussion. > > > I want to be **proud** to put a link on http:/www.squeak.org/ on > important documents. > So could we ut the welcome section right on the top. and the news > after the portal. > > Stef > > > |
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Ron Teitelbaum wrote:
> Hello all, > > I fixed the typos. Thanks for fixing! -- brad fuller www.bradfuller.com |
Re: Could we fix the web site
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In reply to this post by Ron Teitelbaum
Thanks ron.
No problem. my remark was that the web site should find a way to protect itself from news feed if we do not control their contents. Feeds are cool. But I do not know if they were included automatically (and I thought ok what's happen if a guy write a totally silly point). So clearly identifying this is a news and we do not control it could be a way to solve that. Stef On 8 janv. 07, at 03:39, Ron Teitelbaum wrote: > Hello all, > > I fixed the typos. (I stop reading the list for a few days and > look what > happens!) > > I have a couple of things to say. First I am very aware of how > important it > is to get the spelling right. I once lost a very big contract > because of a > typo when my explanation that nobody mentioned it and the software had > really been used for over a year was not accepted. > > I am and remain a very bad speller. I also have no sense of time. > People > that know when something happened amaze me. Everything I remember > feels > like yesterday to me. > > I am using Firefox and it does have a nice spell checker, but I > must have > used IE for this post. I apologize for the typos. > > With that out of the way I would also like to say that I am very > interested > in any and all comments on the news articles that I have been posting. > Please feel free to let me know if you have a suggestion or > criticism. Also > if you notice a typo or grammatical error please let me know. I > promise not > to take offense. > > Thanks for supporting the Web, Doc and News Teams! > > Happy Squeaking, > > Ron Teitelbaum > Squeak News Team Member > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:squeak- >> dev- >> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse >> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 11:27 AM >> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list >> Subject: Could we fix the web site >> >> Hi all >> >> Happy new years. I wish you a lot of fun and success for your >> squeaking projects. >> >> >> Now I would like to know if this is possible to fix the squeak web >> site. >> I was a nice idea to put the news seeds in the web site but but but. >> - we do not control the contents >> - some of them are not really squeaking >> - some of them contain a lot of typos. >> >> "Croquet Edit and Create 3d Objects >> Howard Stearns reciently replyed to a question from Mathieu. I >> thought I’d reporduce his response here. Howard give a lot of very >> good information about Croquet support for third party tools...." >> Sorry but I do not know who is mathieu :) and this give me the >> impression to get in a private discussion. >> >> >> I want to be **proud** to put a link on http:/www.squeak.org/ on >> important documents. >> So could we ut the welcome section right on the top. and the news >> after the portal. >> >> Stef >> >> >> > > > |
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