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In P7 scrpt variable to tmp when in debugger

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philippeback

Re: Pharo Launcher

Go to

http://files.pharo.org/pharo-launcher/bleedingEdge/

Install using the MSI, the laucher should go into %APPDATA% and images/vms to %DOCUMENTS%/Pharo/...

This is the observed behavior of that new version.

Older versions worked differently on Windows 10.

Best,

Phil

On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 12:02 AM, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users <[hidden email]> wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Benoit St-Jean <[hidden email]>
To: Ben Coman <[hidden email]>
Cc: Any question about pharo is welcome <[hidden email]>, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>
Bcc:
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2018 22:02:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: Pharo Launcher
"What path did you install to?"

The installer put it in:

C:\Users\Benoît St-Jean\AppData\Local\Programs\Pharo\BCPharoLauncher>

-----------------
Benoît St-Jean
Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean
Twitter: @BenLeChialeux
Pinterest: benoitstjean
Instagram: Chef_Benito
IRC: lamneth
Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com
"A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein)

tblanchard

Re: Where do we go now ?

In reply to this post by EstebanLM

Or just expand the names to be descriptive.

CalypsoClassBrowser would be cool

On Apr 13, 2018, at 5:39 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 13 Apr 2018, at 14:33, Andrew Glynn <[hidden email]> wrote:

I find NPM as obscure as Pharo, honestly, and VA Smalltalk is worse (wth does abt or sst stand for?). Grunt, Gulp, etc., how do the names relate to what they do?

yes… but we actually have a problem there.
I would like to be able to add “tags" to tools, to be able to say:

Calypso -> a class browser -> some more info
etc.

Esteban

Electron is as obscure as Phobos (although a phobia with web pages turned into desktop apps may be appropriate).

Andrew

On Fri, 2018-04-13 at 14:18 +0200, Peter Uhnák wrote:
On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 2:05 PM, Richard O'Keefe <[hidden email]> wrote:
There are a lot of subsystems in Pharo, and being a bear of
very little brain, I have a hard time relating Zinc, Calypso,
&c &c to, well, whatever they are. I presume there is
somewhere a list of topic/name/PFX triples for guidance.
Can some kind soul tell me where it is?

Until we have mature package manager (similar to Cargo or npm), you have to use google.
On the bright side, with the move to git(hub), people are much more likely to actually describe what their project does, and maybe even a bit of documentation. This was almost non-existent with SmalltalkHub.

Peter

Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list

Re: Pharo Launcher

In reply to this post by philippeback

Tried it, doesn't work.

Changing the .js file didn't change anything. The problem occurs in the image...

Problem seems to be (in my case)

1) the accentuated "Î" which cannot be handled properly in a path FileReference (expecting UTF-8 encoding but the string is seen as a Latin-1

2) PlatformResolver>>launcherUserFilesLocation that defaults to my "Documents" folder, namely "C:\Users\Benoît St-Jean\Documents", hence the path string encoding problem

-----------------
Benoît St-Jean
Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean
Twitter: @BenLeChialeux
Pinterest: benoitstjean
Instagram: Chef_Benito
IRC: lamneth
Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com
"A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein)

On Sunday, April 15, 2018, 6:04:22 p.m. EDT, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Install the bleeding edge thing, it works for me on win 10.

I also noticed that the launcher runs images with VMs that do have a weird management of cursors in the dark themes, it seems that there the masks are not used properly and so, the dark arrow has no white border making it impossible to see.

It was not like that before, so I suspect a VM thing.

Phil

On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Hilaire <[hidden email]> wrote:

Can you make a search for your PharoDebug.log, because I can see, at least on P7 and Linux, this file is not always located nearby the image but at the user root directory.

Hilaire

Le 15/04/2018 à 20:52, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users a écrit :

Downloaded it. Installed it. Started it. Selected an image. Bam. The app vanished.

Also tried on a brand-new-and-fresh-Windows-10 -machine-with-nothing-previous ly-installed and same thing.

The app doesn't even show in the task manager.

And no error file was created.

--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu

Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list

Re: Pharo Launcher

In reply to this post by philippeback

It would be nice if I could uninstall the previous version... :(

https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/21705/Pharo-Launcher-cannot-uninstall-on-Windows-10

On Sunday, April 15, 2018, 6:07:15 p.m. EDT, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Go to

http://files.pharo.org/pharo-launcher/bleedingEdge/

Install using the MSI, the laucher should go into %APPDATA% and images/vms to %DOCUMENTS%/Pharo/...

This is the observed behavior of that new version.

Older versions worked differently on Windows 10.

Best,

Phil

On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 12:02 AM, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users <[hidden email]> wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Benoit St-Jean <[hidden email]>
To: Ben Coman <[hidden email]>
Cc: Any question about pharo is welcome <[hidden email]>, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>
Bcc:
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2018 22:02:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: Pharo Launcher
"What path did you install to?"

The installer put it in:

C:\Users\Benoît St-Jean\AppData\Local\ Programs\Pharo\ BCPharoLauncher>

-----------------
Benoît St-Jean
Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean
Twitter: @BenLeChialeux
Pinterest: benoitstjean
Instagram: Chef_Benito
IRC: lamneth
Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com
"A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein)

Ben Coman

Re: Pharo Launcher

In reply to this post by Ben Coman

On 16 April 2018 at 06:02, Benoit St-Jean <[hidden email]> wrote:
> "What path did you install to?"
>
>
> The installer put it in:
>
> C:\Users\Benoît St-Jean\AppData\Local\Programs\Pharo\BCPharoLauncher>

To work around the special character in your path, try copying that
whole folder to C:\BCPharoLauncher
and directly double-click Pharo.exe. Then click the Settings tool
icon and change the Image & VM paths.

Hopefully that will get you going for now, until we sort out a proper fix.

cheers -ben

Peter Uhnak

Re: Pharo Launcher

> Downloaded it. Installed it. Started it. Selected an image. Bam. The app vanished.

As I've mentioned in several other threads, the way new images are opened (the lib that executes the command) seems to be very unreliable and sometimes opening image just doesn't work, and I have to open PL again and try again.

My guess is that there's a race condition and PL closes faster, and before the subprocess manages to be disowned.

Peter

On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 3:39 AM, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 16 April 2018 at 06:02, Benoit St-Jean <[hidden email]> wrote:
> "What path did you install to?"
>
>
> The installer put it in:
>
> C:\Users\Benoît St-Jean\AppData\Local\Programs\Pharo\BCPharoLauncher>

To work around the special character in your path, try copying that
whole folder to C:\BCPharoLauncher
and directly double-click Pharo.exe. Then click the Settings tool
icon and change the Image & VM paths.

Hopefully that will get you going for now, until we sort out a proper fix.

cheers -ben

Marcus Denker-4

Re: In P7 scrpt variable to tmp when in debugger

In reply to this post by Marcus Denker-4

On 12 Apr 2018, at 17:18, Marcus Denker <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 12 Apr 2018, at 17:06, Hilaire <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Marcus, Benoit,

Nice to know. I was testing in a set up with both .changes and source files. So I was suspecting something like what your described. I can imagine in production code your feature to speed up compilation will be appreciated. For Dr. Geo and Smalltalk sketch, it is better to have variable names.

I should have a fix ready tomorrow.

I will for now revert the change:

https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/1199

This way it behaves as people expect, I have an idea how to provide an option for the faster way.

This will come next.

Marcus

Ben Coman

Re: Pharo Launcher

In reply to this post by Peter Uhnak

On 16 April 2018 at 16:55, Peter Uhnák <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> Downloaded it. Installed it. Started it. Selected an image. Bam. The
>> app vanished.
>
> As I've mentioned in several other threads, the way new images are opened
> (the lib that executes the command) seems to be very unreliable and
> sometimes opening image just doesn't work, and I have to open PL again and
> try again.
>
> My guess is that there's a race condition and PL closes faster, and before
> the subprocess manages to be disowned.

I untick the box "Quit on Launch"

cheers -ben

Marcus Denker-4

Re: In P7 scrpt variable to tmp when in debugger

In reply to this post by Marcus Denker-4

On 16 Apr 2018, at 11:18, Marcus Denker <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 12 Apr 2018, at 17:18, Marcus Denker <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 12 Apr 2018, at 17:06, Hilaire <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Marcus, Benoit,

Nice to know. I was testing in a set up with both .changes and source files. So I was suspecting something like what your described. I can imagine in production code your feature to speed up compilation will be appreciated. For Dr. Geo and Smalltalk sketch, it is better to have variable names.

I should have a fix ready tomorrow.

I will for now revert the change:

https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/1199

This way it behaves as people expect, I have an idea how to provide an option for the faster way.
This will come next.

1) added compiler option to compile with source embedded:

https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/1200

2) then we can use this when evaluating, which avoids the double recompile that we did:

https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/1201

We regain now a lot of speed by avoiding the double recompile, which had been the real source of the speed problem.

The pretty-print of course is still done and costs… so this could be restructured further. e.g. we could add an explicit option to not pretty print.

Marcus

Jimmie Houchin-5

Re: Where do we go now ?

In reply to this post by EstebanLM

On 04/13/2018 07:33 AM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:

On 13 Apr 2018, at 14:23, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote:

Unfortunately there probably isn't one list.
Its hard to unlearn what is accumulated

and easy to take for granted what we know is obvious to everyone.

Maybe we need a "Glossary" at https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/tree/master/wiki

where newcomers can add items for others to fill in.

this is part a debate Stef and I have since years.

I think we need to put generic names to our tools:

- System browser

- Source Version Control

- etc.

while Stef supports fantasy names:

- Calypso

- Iceberg

- etc.

you know who won this debate ;)

but at least I would like to add an option for special menu to show what is suck tool.

cheers,

Esteban

Personally I have wished for a long time that Pharo used standard names for the default tools or libraries in the image. I think the fancy names can lead to confusion as to what am I supposed to use. Which one is the default one, which one is the development one. One shouldn't have to ask the mailing list to determine such things.

If one plans on developing in Pharo for years or for decades. The constant turnover of names makes things cognitively more challenging and I would think it would also make bringing older code forward more difficult.

I ask these questions as one who doesn't know the answer, but only has an opinion. This is not what I do everyday.

What works best for the long view of our system? At some point we know the constant churn will be reduced and we will have a clean, as small as reasonable and stable system. When this is the case, what is best for Pharo in naming of tools and libraries? New names every time implementation changes? Or stable common understandable names, names which represent what the class is? I think the fancy name is okay for the development version. And when upgraded to becoming the default, the name becomes the default name.

I think it would be nice to have stable names which can provide a stable api of class names and public messages which can be around for decades. I think innovation and creativity belong in better places than what's the new name for the System Browser, etc.

It seems this would be nicer on us bears of very little brain. :)

Jimmie

Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list

UTF-8 encoding

In reply to this post by Richard Sargent

Regarding the problems I have with my firstname and file paths and utf-8 encoding, I found something weird in the UTF-8 encoding. In fact, to be more precise, I found something strange when converting a String to a ByteArray (which UTF-8 encoders convert from)

If I look at the example in the comment of ByteArray>>utf8Decoded, 'Les élèves français' is encoded as:

#[76 101 115 32 195 169 108 195 168 118 101 115 32 102 114 97 110 195 167 97 105 115]

NOW, if I take that very same string, 'Les élèves français' , and convert it to a ByteArray, I get :
'Les élèves français' asByteArray printString.

#[76 101 115 32 233 108 232 118 101 115 32 102 114 97 110 231 97 105 115]

The 2 don't match!

By the way, this problem exists on Pharo 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1 (on Windows 10 )

Can anyone confirm/infirm on another platform to see if this is Windows-specific?

Sven Van Caekenberghe-2

Re: UTF-8 encoding

> On 16 Apr 2018, at 17:06, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> From: Benoit St-Jean <[hidden email]>
> Subject: UTF-8 encoding
> Date: 16 April 2018 at 17:06:28 GMT+2
> To: Any question about pharo is welcome <[hidden email]>
> Reply-To: Benoit St-Jean <[hidden email]>
>
>
> Regarding the problems I have with my firstname and file paths and utf-8 encoding, I found something weird in the UTF-8 encoding. In fact, to be more precise, I found something strange when converting a String to a ByteArray (which UTF-8 encoders convert from)
>
> If I look at the example in the comment of ByteArray>>utf8Decoded, 'Les élèves français' is encoded as:
>
> #[76 101 115 32 195 169 108 195 168 118 101 115 32 102 114 97 110 195 167 97 105 115]
>
> NOW, if I take that very same string, 'Les élèves français' , and convert it to a ByteArray, I get :
> 'Les élèves français' asByteArray printString.

You cannot do that, that is using a null encoding, which is almost always wrong.

Please read (the first part) of

https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/EnterprisePharoBook/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/book-result/Zinc-Encoding-Meta/Zinc-Encoding-Meta.html

carefully.

> #[76 101 115 32 233 108 232 118 101 115 32 102 114 97 110 231 97 105 115]
>
> The 2 don't match!
>
> By the way, this problem exists on Pharo 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1 (on Windows 10 )
>
> Can anyone confirm/infirm on another platform to see if this is Windows-specific?

This behaviour is not-windows specific, it is like that on all platforms, and it is correct ;-)

> -----------------
> Benoît St-Jean
> Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean
> Twitter: @BenLeChialeux
> Pinterest: benoitstjean
> Instagram: Chef_Benito
> IRC: lamneth
> Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com
> "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein)
>
>

Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list

Re: UTF-8 encoding

"You cannot do that, that is using a null encoding, which is almost always wrong."

Well, that is exactly what happens when translating my "home" path on Windows 10 !

See attached image

On Monday, April 16, 2018, 11:12:58 a.m. EDT, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]> wrote:

=?UTF-8?b?Qnl0ZUFycmF5RXJyb3IuSlBH?= (285K) Download Attachment

Peter Uhnak

Re: Pharo Launcher

In reply to this post by Ben Coman

On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 12:30 PM, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 16 April 2018 at 16:55, Peter Uhnák <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Downloaded it. Installed it. Started it. Selected an image. Bam. The
>> app vanished.
>
> As I've mentioned in several other threads, the way new images are opened
> (the lib that executes the command) seems to be very unreliable and
> sometimes opening image just doesn't work, and I have to open PL again and
> try again.
>
> My guess is that there's a race condition and PL closes faster, and before
> the subprocess manages to be disowned.

I untick the box "Quit on Launch"

That just turns the problem of "I sometimes have to do extra steps" to "I always have to do extra steps" (i.e. close PL)

Sven Van Caekenberghe-2

Re: UTF-8 encoding

In reply to this post by Sven Van Caekenberghe-2

> On 16 Apr 2018, at 17:25, Benoit St-Jean <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> "You cannot do that, that is using a null encoding, which is almost always wrong."
>
> Well, that is exactly what happens when translating my "home" path on Windows 10 !

Then you probably found a bug.

As the comment says, the assumption is that the string parameter is something that it is not, it seems to be already decoded. Or it was/is in Latin1.

Question remains: how did it get there (from which primitive) ? I am guessing from environment variables. Maybe there is a decoding error there ?

> See attached image
>
>
> -----------------
> Benoît St-Jean
> Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean
> Twitter: @BenLeChialeux
> Pinterest: benoitstjean
> Instagram: Chef_Benito
> IRC: lamneth
> Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com
> "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein)
>
>
> On Monday, April 16, 2018, 11:12:58 a.m. EDT, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> > On 16 Apr 2018, at 17:06, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Benoit St-Jean <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: UTF-8 encoding
> > Date: 16 April 2018 at 17:06:28 GMT+2
> > To: Any question about pharo is welcome <[hidden email]>
> > Reply-To: Benoit St-Jean <[hidden email]>
> >
> >
> > Regarding the problems I have with my firstname and file paths and utf-8 encoding, I found something weird in the UTF-8 encoding. In fact, to be more precise, I found something strange when converting a String to a ByteArray (which UTF-8 encoders convert from)
> >
> > If I look at the example in the comment of ByteArray>>utf8Decoded, 'Les élèves français' is encoded as:
> >
> > #[76 101 115 32 195 169 108 195 168 118 101 115 32 102 114 97 110 195 167 97 105 115]
> >
> > NOW, if I take that very same string, 'Les élèves français' , and convert it to a ByteArray, I get :
> > 'Les élèves français' asByteArray printString.
>
> You cannot do that, that is using a null encoding, which is almost always wrong.
>
> Please read (the first part) of
>
> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/EnterprisePharoBook/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/book-result/Zinc-Encoding-Meta/Zinc-Encoding-Meta.html
>
> carefully.
>
> > #[76 101 115 32 233 108 232 118 101 115 32 102 114 97 110 231 97 105 115]
> >
> > The 2 don't match!
> >
> > By the way, this problem exists on Pharo 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1 (on Windows 10 )
> >
> > Can anyone confirm/infirm on another platform to see if this is Windows-specific?
>
> This behaviour is not-windows specific, it is like that on all platforms, and it is correct ;-)
>
>
> > -----------------
> > Benoît St-Jean
> > Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean
> > Twitter: @BenLeChialeux
> > Pinterest: benoitstjean
> > Instagram: Chef_Benito
> > IRC: lamneth
> > Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com
> > "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein)
> >
> >
> <ByteArrayError.JPG>

Ben Coman

Re: Pharo Launcher

In reply to this post by Peter Uhnak

On 17 April 2018 at 00:11, Peter Uhnák <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 12:30 PM, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 16 April 2018 at 16:55, Peter Uhnák <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Downloaded it. Installed it. Started it. Selected an image. Bam. The
>> app vanished.
>
> As I've mentioned in several other threads, the way new images are opened
> (the lib that executes the command) seems to be very unreliable and
> sometimes opening image just doesn't work, and I have to open PL again and
> try again.
>
> My guess is that there's a race condition and PL closes faster, and before
> the subprocess manages to be disowned.

I untick the box "Quit on Launch"

That just turns the problem of "I sometimes have to do extra steps" to "I always have to do extra steps" (i.e. close PL)

You misunderstand. I *prefer* never to close PharoLauncher.

Particularly when I dig deep into stuff that is likely to hang an Image,

Needing to *again* click the start menu, then click PharoLauncher,

to get to the Image I want are two extra steps I like to avoid.

I guess thats why I added that feature to PharoLauncher ;)

cheers -ben

Sean P. DeNigris

Re: Pharo Launcher

Administrator

Ben Coman wrote
> I *prefer* never to close PharoLauncher.

That's the way I work as well, especially because I found that on Mac
apparently you have to close all open images before Launcher will open again
from the Dock.

-----
Cheers,
Sean
--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Cheers,
Sean

Stephane Ducasse-3

Re: Pharo Launcher

sean

I do not have this behavior.
I can use the launcher to open multiple images from the launcher.

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 1:00 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ben Coman wrote
>> I *prefer* never to close PharoLauncher.
>
> That's the way I work as well, especially because I found that on Mac
> apparently you have to close all open images before Launcher will open again
> from the Dock.
>
>
>
> -----
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>

Ben Coman

Re: Pharo Launcher

A while ago I experienced similar behavior, but I'm not on Mac at the moment.

Maybe it depends on OS version?

cheers -ben

On 19 April 2018 at 04:35, Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:

sean

I do not have this behavior.
I can use the launcher to open multiple images from the launcher.

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 1:00 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Ben Coman wrote
>> I *prefer* never to close PharoLauncher.
>
> That's the way I work as well, especially because I found that on Mac
> apparently you have to close all open images before Launcher will open again
> from the Dock.
>
>
>
> -----
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>

Stephane Ducasse-3

Re: Pharo Launcher

I'm in 10.12.6

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 11:34 PM, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> A while ago I experienced similar behavior, but I'm not on Mac at the
> moment.
> Maybe it depends on OS version?
>
> cheers -ben
>
>
> On 19 April 2018 at 04:35, Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> sean
>>
>> I do not have this behavior.
>> I can use the launcher to open multiple images from the launcher.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 1:00 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > Ben Coman wrote
>> >> I *prefer* never to close PharoLauncher.
>> >
>> > That's the way I work as well, especially because I found that on Mac
>> > apparently you have to close all open images before Launcher will open
>> > again
>> > from the Dock.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----
>> > Cheers,
>> > Sean
>> > --
>> > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>> >
>>
>

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