looking for feedback on Cocoa Cog MT VM
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Hi, finally, after two months of suffering, thanks to John, I managed to fix a huge bug on cocoa cog vms that was showing up on latest cog and cog mt versions. Now, I think it is working pretty well, and with a good set of plugins: internal plugins: #(#ADPCMCodecPlugin #BMPReadWriterPlugin #BalloonEnginePlugin #BitBltSimulation #ClipboardExtendedPlugin #DSAPlugin #DeflatePlugin #DropPlugin #FFTPlugin #FilePlugin #FloatArrayPlugin #GeniePlugin #HostWindowPlugin #JPEGReadWriter2Plugin #JPEGReaderPlugin #KlattSynthesizerPlugin #LargeIntegersPlugin #Matrix2x3Plugin #MiscPrimitivePlugin #RePlugin #SecurityPlugin #SocketPlugin #SoundCodecPlugin #SoundGenerationPlugin #SoundPlugin #StarSqueakPlugin #SurfacePlugin) external plugins: #(#ThreadedIA32FFIPlugin #IA32ABIPlugin #UUIDPlugin #FloatMathPlugin #AsynchFilePlugin #SerialPlugin #Mpeg3Plugin #CroquetPlugin #JoystickTabletPlugin #MIDIPlugin #B3DAcceleratorPlugin #LocalePlugin) I want to release a stable Cocoa VM version by this month, so I'm looking for some guys who can test it and provide me some feedback, in case something is wrong. So... please, use it! :) cheers, Esteban |
Re: looking for feedback on Cocoa Cog MT VM
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> Hi, > finally, after two months of suffering, thanks to John, I managed to fix a huge bug on cocoa cog vms can you tell us a bit more about it? > internal plugins: > #(#ADPCMCodecPlugin #BMPReadWriterPlugin #BalloonEnginePlugin #BitBltSimulation #ClipboardExtendedPlugin #DSAPlugin #DeflatePlugin #DropPlugin #FFTPlugin #FilePlugin #FloatArrayPlugin #GeniePlugin #HostWindowPlugin #JPEGReadWriter2Plugin #JPEGReaderPlugin #KlattSynthesizerPlugin #LargeIntegersPlugin #Matrix2x3Plugin #MiscPrimitivePlugin #RePlugin #SecurityPlugin #SocketPlugin #SoundCodecPlugin #SoundGenerationPlugin #SoundPlugin #StarSqueakPlugin #SurfacePlugin) > > external plugins: > #(#ThreadedIA32FFIPlugin #IA32ABIPlugin #UUIDPlugin #FloatMathPlugin #AsynchFilePlugin #SerialPlugin #Mpeg3Plugin #CroquetPlugin #JoystickTabletPlugin #MIDIPlugin #B3DAcceleratorPlugin #LocalePlugin) > > I want to release a stable Cocoa VM version by this month, so I'm looking for some guys who can test it and provide me some feedback, in case something is wrong. So... please, use it! :) where can we find it? > > cheers, > Esteban > > |
Re: looking for feedback on Cocoa Cog MT VM
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On 19 May 2011 09:12, stephane ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: > > >> Hi, >> finally, after two months of suffering, thanks to John, I managed to fix a huge bug on cocoa cog vms > > can you tell us a bit more about it? > >> internal plugins: >> #(#ADPCMCodecPlugin #BMPReadWriterPlugin #BalloonEnginePlugin #BitBltSimulation #ClipboardExtendedPlugin #DSAPlugin #DeflatePlugin #DropPlugin #FFTPlugin #FilePlugin #FloatArrayPlugin #GeniePlugin #HostWindowPlugin #JPEGReadWriter2Plugin #JPEGReaderPlugin #KlattSynthesizerPlugin #LargeIntegersPlugin #Matrix2x3Plugin #MiscPrimitivePlugin #RePlugin #SecurityPlugin #SocketPlugin #SoundCodecPlugin #SoundGenerationPlugin #SoundPlugin #StarSqueakPlugin #SurfacePlugin) >> >> external plugins: >> #(#ThreadedIA32FFIPlugin #IA32ABIPlugin #UUIDPlugin #FloatMathPlugin #AsynchFilePlugin #SerialPlugin #Mpeg3Plugin #CroquetPlugin #JoystickTabletPlugin #MIDIPlugin #B3DAcceleratorPlugin #LocalePlugin) >> >> I want to release a stable Cocoa VM version by this month, so I'm looking for some guys who can test it and provide me some feedback, in case something is wrong. So... please, use it! :) > > where can we find it? > But probably we could use some other place for stockpiling builds. >> >> cheers, >> Esteban >> -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig. |
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Hi, yes... it is on hudson: <a href="https://pharo-ic.lille.inria.fr/hudson/view/Cog/job/CogMT Mac Cocoa/">https://pharo-ic.lille.inria.fr/hudson/view/Cog/job/CogMT%20Mac%20Cocoa/ but when I declare a version as "stable" I will be copying it to squeakvm.org (just before the ANN :) best, Esteban El 19/05/2011, a las 4:18a.m., Igor Stasenko escribió:
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Re: looking for feedback on Cocoa Cog MT VM
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In reply to this post by EstebanLM
Thanks Esteban! A few questions: * if I open and save an image with Cog, will I still be able to run it with the interpreter VM? * I noticed several plugins which I use often - OSProcess, OSA (Applescript), Quicktime, FFI, and ObjectiveC - not listed; are there plans to eventually include these? Sean
Cheers,
Sean |
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Hi Sean, you can re-open a cog saved image with 5.4.7.1... otherwise, you are doom :) about the plugins: 1) ffi is present, but not it is called different (anyway, if you call listLoadedModules after an FFI execution, you will read "SqueakFFIPrims"... is just the name of the class who changed) 2) I can add OSProcess and ObjectiveC without any problem (in fact OSProcess is working, I don't know why I didn't included before) 3) Quicktime... I will try :) 4) OSA... I don't know what is that :) cheers, Esteban El 21/05/2011, a las 4:14p.m., Sean P. DeNigris escribió: > > > Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >> >> release a stable Cocoa VM version by this month, so I'm looking for some >> guys who can test it and provide me some feedback, in case something is >> wrong. So... please, use it! :) >> > > Thanks Esteban! A few questions: > * if I open and save an image with Cog, will I still be able to run it with > the interpreter VM? > * I noticed several plugins which I use often - OSProcess, OSA > (Applescript), Quicktime, FFI, and ObjectiveC - not listed; are there plans > to eventually include these? > > Sean > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/looking-for-feedback-on-Cocoa-Cog-MT-VM-tp3534230p3541038.html > Sent from the Squeak VM mailing list archive at Nabble.com. |
Re: looking for feedback on Cocoa Cog MT VM
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So I could start with Cog and revert to using 5.4.7.1 if I ran into a problem? What is the status of 5.4.7.1 - is it all-around superior to 4.2.5? I'm only still using 4.2.5 because 5.4.7.1 also didn't seem to have most of the plugins that I use (my copy only seems to have OSProcess). Cool, with those I could start using Cog for much of my development... These would be great. OSA is Mac's Open Scripting Architecture, which is used by the Applescript project (which I use a lot in my personal images). Maybe I can help porting. I started watching Mariano's VM screencast. Is that the best starting point? Thanks again. Sean
Cheers,
Sean |
Re: looking for feedback on Cocoa Cog MT VM
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Esteban, i tried to use CogMTVM and results are not so good. Image hangs after running a while. Maybe its because, i tried to enable multithreading by setting Smalltalk processHasThreadIdInstVar: true. In total, when running this VM i got 1 crash and 2 hangs. @All: Its okay, since they are new.. but we need to test better those VMs, if we want to use them in future. On 22 May 2011 05:03, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >> >> you can re-open a cog saved image with 5.4.7.1... otherwise, you are doom >> :) >> > > So I could start with Cog and revert to using 5.4.7.1 if I ran into a > problem? What is the status of 5.4.7.1 - is it all-around superior to 4.2.5? > I'm only still using 4.2.5 because 5.4.7.1 also didn't seem to have most of > the plugins that I use (my copy only seems to have OSProcess). > > > Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >> >> 2) I can add OSProcess and ObjectiveC without any problem (in fact >> OSProcess is working, I don't know why I didn't included before) >> > Cool, with those I could start using Cog for much of my development... > > > Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >> >> 3) Quicktime... I will try :) >> 4) OSA... I don't know what is that :) >> > These would be great. OSA is Mac's Open Scripting Architecture, which is > used by the Applescript project (which I use a lot in my personal images). > Maybe I can help porting. I started watching Mariano's VM screencast. Is > that the best starting point? > > Thanks again. > Sean > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/looking-for-feedback-on-Cocoa-Cog-MT-VM-tp3534230p3541558.html > Sent from the Squeak VM mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig. |
Re: looking for feedback on Cocoa Cog MT VM
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On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 12:16 PM, Igor Stasenko <[hidden email]> wrote:
The hangs was what indeed he solved with John last week. So....or you are using an old VM (or the changes were not commited) or the bug is still there or it is a new bug.
That's test is exactly what Esteban was asking.
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com |
Re: looking for feedback on Cocoa Cog MT VM
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In reply to this post by Sean P. DeNigris
On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 5:03 AM, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes What is the status of 5.4.7.1 - is it all-around superior to 4.2.5? Be careful because for example in 5.4.7.1 I cannot use FFI.
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com |
Re: looking for feedback on Cocoa Cog MT VM
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Are there plans to build all the plugins for 5.4.7.1? If so, what is the timeline, if any? Sean
Cheers,
Sean |
Re: looking for feedback on Cocoa Cog MT VM
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On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have no idea. But I admit I would like a cococa VM with latest plugins working also with non-cog. So...having a 5.4.7.2 with new plugins and latest VMMaker would be cool. We should ask Esteban. Sean -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com |
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Yes... it will. Timeline? "sometime soon" :) (sorry, I'm on my phone, I can't answer with more detail now. Tomorrow I'll explain better) El 22/05/2011, a las 1:32p.m., Mariano Martinez Peck escribió:
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Re: looking for feedback on Cocoa Cog MT VM
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Okay thanks. Also, now that Cog is around, will the interpreter VM stick around indefinitely, or just until Cog is stable / widely adopted? IOW why wouldn't everyone just start using Cog? Sean
Cheers,
Sean |
Re: looking for feedback on Cocoa Cog MT VM
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On 22.05.2011, at 22:22, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > Also, now that Cog is around, will the interpreter VM stick > around indefinitely, or just until Cog is stable / widely adopted? I expect the interpreter to stick around, but see less use as time progresses. > IOW why wouldn't everyone just start using Cog? Cog cannot run old images. The current VM can still run Squeak 1.1 images. Some images are in production use for many years, there is no reason to change them. Also, more complex VMs are harder to port to other systems. Cog is more complex than the Stack VM, which is more complex than the Interpreter VM. E.g. there is no ARM port of Cog yet, whereas Stack and Interpreter VMs do work. - Bert - |
Re: looking for feedback on Cocoa Cog MT VM
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On 22 May 2011 22:42, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote: > > On 22.05.2011, at 22:22, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > >> Also, now that Cog is around, will the interpreter VM stick >> around indefinitely, or just until Cog is stable / widely adopted? > > I expect the interpreter to stick around, but see less use as time progresses. > >> IOW why wouldn't everyone just start using Cog? > > Cog cannot run old images. The current VM can still run Squeak 1.1 images. Some images are in production use for many years, there is no reason to change them. > > Also, more complex VMs are harder to port to other systems. Cog is more complex than the Stack VM, which is more complex than the Interpreter VM. E.g. there is no ARM port of Cog yet, whereas Stack and Interpreter VMs do work. > Yes. And some platforms not allow to run JIT software, so stack vm is the only choice there. > - Bert - > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig. |
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In reply to this post by Igor Stasenko
Hi Igor, did you use latest compiled vm? as far a I see, your problem looks like the one John and I fixed. But... I did not try it with threadid enabled, I will test it awhile to see what happens there. cheers, Esteban El 22/05/2011, a las 7:16a.m., Igor Stasenko escribió: > > Esteban, > i tried to use CogMTVM > > and results are not so good. > Image hangs after running a while. > > Maybe its because, i tried to enable multithreading by setting > Smalltalk processHasThreadIdInstVar: true. > > In total, when running this VM i got 1 crash and 2 hangs. > > @All: > Its okay, since they are new.. but we need to test better those VMs, > if we want to use them in future. > > On 22 May 2011 05:03, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> >> Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >>> >>> you can re-open a cog saved image with 5.4.7.1... otherwise, you are doom >>> :) >>> >> >> So I could start with Cog and revert to using 5.4.7.1 if I ran into a >> problem? What is the status of 5.4.7.1 - is it all-around superior to 4.2.5? >> I'm only still using 4.2.5 because 5.4.7.1 also didn't seem to have most of >> the plugins that I use (my copy only seems to have OSProcess). >> >> >> Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >>> >>> 2) I can add OSProcess and ObjectiveC without any problem (in fact >>> OSProcess is working, I don't know why I didn't included before) >>> >> Cool, with those I could start using Cog for much of my development... >> >> >> Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >>> >>> 3) Quicktime... I will try :) >>> 4) OSA... I don't know what is that :) >>> >> These would be great. OSA is Mac's Open Scripting Architecture, which is >> used by the Applescript project (which I use a lot in my personal images). >> Maybe I can help porting. I started watching Mariano's VM screencast. Is >> that the best starting point? >> >> Thanks again. >> Sean >> >> -- >> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/looking-for-feedback-on-Cocoa-Cog-MT-VM-tp3534230p3541558.html >> Sent from the Squeak VM mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. |
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In reply to this post by Bert Freudenberg
Hi, > Also, more complex VMs are harder to port to other systems. Cog is more complex than the Stack VM, which is more complex than the Interpreter VM. E.g. there is no ARM port of Cog yet, whereas Stack and Interpreter VMs do work. this is not completely true, IMHO. As I saw, platform dependent code between interpreter, stack and cog is exactly the same, so I don't see a reason why stack can't replace interpreter in all non jit-compliant platforms (like iOS). What is definitively true, is the fact that there are a lot of machines who needs to use a 4.x series (in mac versions), and a lot of legacy code who will be using this "old" vm too... and because of this, 4.x series will be around a long time. What I think it will be disappearing, before than the 4.x series is the 5.x series: this is "old" interpreter vm with cocoa platform code. Why? just because this emerging is more or less coexisting with cog/stack vms, and right now the unique use I can found for this is that the latest version (5.7.4.1) can open a cog saved image. So, people will use it while cog/stack vms are in "stabilization" phase, but right after that, I see no reason to keep it (if I'm wrong at this, please let me know). I any case, I will be releasing 5.x series with plugins compiled, etc., as my timeline says, "sometime soon", and I will be releasing updated versions time to time :) cheers, Esteban |
Re: looking for feedback on Cocoa Cog MT VM
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On 24.05.2011, at 15:09, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > > Hi, > >> Also, more complex VMs are harder to port to other systems. Cog is more complex than the Stack VM, which is more complex than the Interpreter VM. E.g. there is no ARM port of Cog yet, whereas Stack and Interpreter VMs do work. > > this is not completely true, IMHO. Which part is "not completely true"? - Bert - |
Re: looking for feedback on Cocoa Cog MT VM
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On 24.05.2011 15:17, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > > On 24.05.2011, at 15:09, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > >> Hi, >> >>> Also, more complex VMs are harder to port to other systems. Cog is more complex than the Stack VM, which is more complex than the Interpreter VM. E.g. there is no ARM port of Cog yet, whereas Stack and Interpreter VMs do work. >> this is not completely true, IMHO. > Which part is "not completely true"? > > - Bert - Like you both noted, while absolute complexity is higher, porting Stack and Interpreter VM's isn't much different from the platform point of view. Cog is an entirely different beast of course :) Cheers, Henry |
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