[BetaTesting] [ANN] Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1

El dom, 10-01-2010 a las 00:08 +0100, Matthias Berth escribió:

> Hi Bill,

>
> this one works for me with the current pharo core 1.0 rc1, update upto 10505
>
> "execute this:"
> Gofer new
>        squeaksource: 'Loader';
>        package: 'Loader';
>        load.
> "then this"
> Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'.
> "then this"
> Loader new
>        load: 'Seaside28' version: '2.8.4.2'
>
> The "Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'." loads a lot
> of additional pharo packages. I guess you won't need that just to get
> seaside working.
>

But isn't the loader alpha yet?

I mean, I am really expecting for Esteban to release it because is more
concise to write commands, but the issue here is the testing of the 1.0
release of pharo with the current available/stable tools, that is,
monticello, gofer and metacello.

Cheers

--

Miguel Cobá
http://miguel.leugim.com.mx


_______________________________________________
Pharo-project mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Matthias,

That appears to have worked.  Let's see, we have Installer, ScriptLoader,

Configuration*,

Gofer,

etc., and now Loader =:0

 I'm guilty too, because I ended up writing Migrate in self defense.  Clearly something is missing in package management or we would not have so many different solutions to strongly overlapping problems.

I will have to repeat this because

 Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'.

did not seem to do much - makes me wonder whether I really ran it.  If not, then it appears not to be necessary for Seaside to at least load.

If this is in fact the correct way to install Seaside (I submit we need direction on that, unless you or Esteban are the authoritative source??), then it needs to get a link on the download page.  Therein, we should refer to (Smalltalk at:#Loader) rather than directly to Loader.

Please convey my thanks and respect to Esteban - not sure I want to know *how* this works :)

Thanks!!

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Matthias Berth
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 6:09 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN] Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1

Hi Bill,

this one works for me with the current pharo core 1.0 rc1, update upto 10505

"execute this:"
Gofer new
      squeaksource: 'Loader';
      package: 'Loader';
      load.
"then this"
Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'.
"then this"
Loader new
      load: 'Seaside28' version: '2.8.4.2'

The "Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'." loads a lot of additional pharo packages. I guess you won't need that just to get seaside working.

Ask Esteban Lorenzano for details about hw this works :)

Cheers

Matthias

2010/1/9 Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]>:
> Two can be tired of this.  I could just use the official Seaside
> images, but I thought it might be nice to help with testing the
> monthly images.  I won't get very far with that if Seaside won't load.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Mariano Martinez Peck
> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 4:38 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN]
> Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1
>
>
>
> 2010/1/9 Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]>
>>
>> Mariano,
>>
>> The reason I objected (and continue to do so) to clobbering the web
>> image is that complete chaos of how to install things comes into
>> play.  Assuming that I know what YOU said on the subject is a stretch
>> to say the least: try a search engine on the subject.
>>
>
> I am a bit tired of this. I will answer for the last time and I hope
> you
> understand: Do you want seaside ?
>
> 1) Volunteer yourself to build Web images. It is easy to ask, but what
> about doing?
>
> 2) Take the Web Image before, analize how seaside was installed and do
> it by yourself. I cannot take it more than half an hour.
>
> 3) Use official seaside image
>
> 4) Report what doesn't work with the ConfigurationOfSeaside in
> Metacello mailing list so that everybody can collaborate and fix it.
> If you see that mailing list, I did exactly that. Just saying "doesn't work"  does not help.
>
> Cheers
>
> Mariano
>
>>
>> BTW, it does not work.  There is very little I can do until Seaside loads.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>> Mariano Martinez Peck
>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 4:08 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN]
>> Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1
>>
>>
>>
>> 2010/1/9 Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>> Gofer seaside28 load
>>>
>>
>> I didn't say that. I said:
>>
>> Gofer new
>>     squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository';
>>     package: 'ConfigurationOfSeaside28';
>>     load.
>>
>> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfSeaside28) load
>>
>> And I also said I was not sure of this is working.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Mariano
>>
>>>
>>> does not work.  What is the correct way to install Seaside - I can't
>>> do much w/o it.
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: [hidden email]
>>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>>> Mariano Martinez Peck
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 3:01 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN]
>>> Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2010/1/9 Miguel Enrique Cobá Martinez <[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Mariano,
>>>>
>>>> good job. Some feedback.
>>>>
>>>> The installScript has unused variables and your proxy settings exposed.
>>>> Maybe this should be deleted from the final build.
>>>>
>>>
>>> hahahahah I knew I was going to forget about that :( Thanks. Some
>>> bash guru that help me to automatize this? I would like something
>>> that automatically removes that from the file if it is found.
>>> Can you help me Miguel ?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Shouldn't be this a RC 2? because there is a new build process and
>>>> has nothing to do with the RC1?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I thought about putting it RC2, actually, I was going to do that.
>>> But as the PharoCore was named rc1, I din't want to name it rc2
>>> because maybe it was confusing.
>>> I am not sure, thus. What do you think ?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also, the changes files, shouldn't be compressed for each RC and
>>>> for the final release?
>>>
>>> Excellent point. Do you rather to Smalltalk >> condenseChanges ?  It
>>> can be perfectly added. Right now, we are doing all this:
>>>
>>>
>>>     MCFileBasedRepository flushAllCaches.
>>>     MCDefinition clearInstances.
>>>     Smalltalk removeEmptyMessageCategories.
>>>     Utilities cleanseOtherworldlySteppers.
>>>     Undeclared removeUnreferencedKeys.
>>>     Categorizer sortAllCategories.
>>>     Symbol compactSymbolTable.
>>>     Smalltalk at: #ReleaseBuilderDeveloper ifPresent: [:builder |
>>> builder new fixObsoleteReferences].
>>>     RequiredSelectors initialize.
>>>     ProvidedSelectors initialize.
>>>     LocalSends initialize.
>>>     Smalltalk organization removeEmptyCategories.
>>>     SystemBrowser removeObsolete.
>>>     TheWorldMenu removeObsolete.
>>>     AppRegistry removeObsolete.
>>>     Set rehashAllSets.
>>>     Smalltalk cleanOutUndeclared.
>>>     Smalltalk garbageCollect.
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you think something else should be addded?   Maybe we can reuse
>>> ScriptLoader cleanings ?
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also, the packages.txt file talks about PharoCore1.0 (#10505). Has
>>>> someone thought about the name shown in System->About:
>>>>
>>>> PharoCore1.0rc1
>>>> Latest update: #10505
>>>>
>>>> Because this is not a PharoCore image. Shouldn't this read
>>>> something like
>>>>
>>>> Pharo 1.0 Dev image.
>>>> Based on PharoCore1.0rc1
>>>> Latest update: #10505
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, that's true. I agree. At least it was not "my falt" as it was
>>> already like that. But I am agree we should change that. However, I
>>> don't know how to do it.
>>> Maybe something related to SystemVersion? Any help ?
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> What about the disabling of software updates in the Pharo dev/web
>>>> images? Will this be implemented or a careful update stream will be
>>>> made in order to not break a dev image with overrides (real
>>>> difficult I think).
>>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe. But in addition, sometimes there are bugs that updating just
>>> fix them. I am not sure if I want to disable. I rather warn people about it.
>>> Do you know if we break some overrrides doing an update?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Maybe all this setup can be put in a post-script in the
>>>> ConfigurationOfPharo class.
>>>
>>> It is. We have pre and post do its. So, no problem :)
>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's all for now. I'm going to use this image to work the
>>>> following days.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers and keep the good work.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks Miguel for the excellent feedback. Let's hope to build better
>>> images!
>>>
>>> Mariano
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Miguel Cobá
>>>> http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>

_______________________________________________
Pharo-project mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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El sáb, 09-01-2010 a las 21:00 +0100, Mariano Martinez Peck escribió:

>
>
> 2010/1/9 Miguel Enrique Cobá Martinez <[hidden email]>
>         Hi Mariano,
>
>         good job. Some feedback.
>
>         The installScript has unused variables and your proxy settings
>         exposed.
>         Maybe this should be deleted from the final build.
>
>
> hahahahah I knew I was going to forget about that :(
> Thanks. Some bash guru that help me to automatize this? I would like
> something that automatically removes that from the file if it is
> found.
> Can you help me Miguel ?

Maybe you can use two scripts, one for configuring the proxy and other
for the gofer/metacello configuration. Then before zipping the files,
delete the proxy settings one. Also, don't the settings remain
configured in the image on the snapshot:andQuit message. If so, a
post-script to clear the parameter is needed too.

>
>         Shouldn't be this a RC 2? because there is a new build process
>         and has
>         nothing to do with the RC1?
>
>
> I thought about putting it RC2, actually, I was going to do that. But
> as the PharoCore was named rc1, I din't want to name it rc2 because
> maybe it was confusing.
> I am not sure, thus. What do you think ?

I think that is good to have a RC2. Also this shows progress to the
public.

>
>         Also, the changes files, shouldn't be compressed for each RC
>         and for the
>         final release?
>
> Excellent point. Do you rather to Smalltalk >> condenseChanges ?  It
> can be perfectly added. Right now, we are doing all this:

I don't know the exact message to condense changes, but if it is that
then yes, should be added near the end of the other instructions.

>
>
>     MCFileBasedRepository flushAllCaches.
>     MCDefinition clearInstances.
>     Smalltalk removeEmptyMessageCategories.
>     Utilities cleanseOtherworldlySteppers.
>     Undeclared removeUnreferencedKeys.
>     Categorizer sortAllCategories.
>     Symbol compactSymbolTable.
>     Smalltalk at: #ReleaseBuilderDeveloper ifPresent: [:builder |
> builder new fixObsoleteReferences].
>     RequiredSelectors initialize.
>     ProvidedSelectors initialize.
>     LocalSends initialize.
>     Smalltalk organization removeEmptyCategories.
>     SystemBrowser removeObsolete.
>     TheWorldMenu removeObsolete.
>     AppRegistry removeObsolete.
>     Set rehashAllSets.
>     Smalltalk cleanOutUndeclared.
>     Smalltalk garbageCollect.
>

Respect to this list, and maybe this should be a ticket. Shouldn't be
better to have an established message to cleanup the image on release.
Something like the cleanUpForImageRelease but generalized and then, the
classes that need to do something like this, they implement that
message.

So on release a new image version you only call something like

Smalltalk cleanUpForImageRelease.

and inside it search all the classes that implements the message and
call them. So, your post-script becomes a single line and each package
is responsible of putting inside its own cleanUpForImageRelease whatever
needed to initialize itself.
But well, just an idea for subsequent releases.

>
> Do you think something else should be addded?   Maybe we can reuse
> ScriptLoader cleanings ?

Yes, and also the GarbageCollector parameters that John McIntosh is
preparing. This must be part of Pharo 1.0 without doubts.

>
>
>
>
>         Also, the packages.txt file talks about PharoCore1.0 (#10505).
>         Has
>         someone thought about the name shown in System->About:
>
>         PharoCore1.0rc1
>         Latest update: #10505
>
>         Because this is not a PharoCore image. Shouldn't this read
>         something
>         like
>
>         Pharo 1.0 Dev image.
>         Based on PharoCore1.0rc1
>         Latest update: #10505
>
>
> Yes, that's true. I agree. At least it was not "my falt" as it was
> already like that. But I am agree we should change that. However, I
> don't know how to do it.
> Maybe something related to SystemVersion? Any help ?
>
>
>         What about the disabling of software updates in the Pharo
>         dev/web
>         images? Will this be implemented or a careful update stream
>         will be made
>         in order to not break a dev image with overrides (real
>         difficult I
>         think).
>
>
> Maybe. But in addition, sometimes there are bugs that updating just
> fix them. I am not sure if I want to disable. I rather warn people
> about it.

Yes, both options have pros and cons.

Pros
- Can fix bugs after release
- Can aply improvements to the image after release.

Cons
- Can mess the image of someone by overwriting some overridden method.
- Can accidentally update more than intended in someone's image

Should we vote?

> Do you know if we break some overrrides doing an update?
>
>         Maybe all this setup can be put in a post-script in the
>         ConfigurationOfPharo class.
>
> It is. We have pre and post do its. So, no problem :)
>
>
>         That's all for now. I'm going to use this image to work the
>         following
>         days.
>
>         Cheers and keep the good work.

> Thanks Miguel for the excellent feedback. Let's hope to build better
> images!
>
> Mariano
>

Cheers

--

Miguel Cobá
http://miguel.leugim.com.mx


_______________________________________________
Pharo-project mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Matthias,

That appears to have worked.  Let's see, we have Installer, ScriptLoader,

Configuration*,

Gofer,

etc., and now Loader =:0

 I'm guilty too, because I ended up writing Migrate in self defense.  Clearly something is missing in package management or we would not have so many different solutions to strongly overlapping problems.

I will have to repeat this because

 Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'.

did not seem to do much - makes me wonder whether I really ran it.  If not, then it appears not to be necessary for Seaside to at least load.

If this is in fact the correct way to install Seaside (I submit we need direction on that, unless you or Esteban are the authoritative source??), then it needs to get a link on the download page.  Therein, we should refer to (Smalltalk at:#Loader) rather than directly to Loader.

Please convey my thanks and respect to Esteban - not sure I want to know *how* this works :)

Thanks!!

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Matthias Berth
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 6:09 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN] Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1

Hi Bill,

this one works for me with the current pharo core 1.0 rc1, update upto 10505

"execute this:"
Gofer new
      squeaksource: 'Loader';
      package: 'Loader';
      load.
"then this"
Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'.
"then this"
Loader new
      load: 'Seaside28' version: '2.8.4.2'

The "Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'." loads a lot of additional pharo packages. I guess you won't need that just to get seaside working.

Ask Esteban Lorenzano for details about hw this works :)

Cheers

Matthias

2010/1/9 Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]>:

> Two can be tired of this.  I could just use the official Seaside
> images, but I thought it might be nice to help with testing the
> monthly images.  I won't get very far with that if Seaside won't load.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Mariano Martinez Peck
> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 4:38 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN]
> Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1
>
>
>
> 2010/1/9 Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]>
>>
>> Mariano,
>>
>> The reason I objected (and continue to do so) to clobbering the web
>> image is that complete chaos of how to install things comes into
>> play.  Assuming that I know what YOU said on the subject is a stretch
>> to say the least: try a search engine on the subject.
>>
>
> I am a bit tired of this. I will answer for the last time and I hope
> you
> understand: Do you want seaside ?
>
> 1) Volunteer yourself to build Web images. It is easy to ask, but what
> about doing?
>
> 2) Take the Web Image before, analize how seaside was installed and do
> it by yourself. I cannot take it more than half an hour.
>
> 3) Use official seaside image
>
> 4) Report what doesn't work with the ConfigurationOfSeaside in
> Metacello mailing list so that everybody can collaborate and fix it.
> If you see that mailing list, I did exactly that. Just saying "doesn't work"  does not help.
>
> Cheers
>
> Mariano
>
>>
>> BTW, it does not work.  There is very little I can do until Seaside loads.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>> Mariano Martinez Peck
>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 4:08 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN]
>> Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1
>>
>>
>>
>> 2010/1/9 Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>> Gofer seaside28 load
>>>
>>
>> I didn't say that. I said:
>>
>> Gofer new
>>     squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository';
>>     package: 'ConfigurationOfSeaside28';
>>     load.
>>
>> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfSeaside28) load
>>
>> And I also said I was not sure of this is working.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Mariano
>>
>>>
>>> does not work.  What is the correct way to install Seaside - I can't
>>> do much w/o it.
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: [hidden email]
>>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>>> Mariano Martinez Peck
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 3:01 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN]
>>> Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2010/1/9 Miguel Enrique Cobá Martinez <[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Mariano,
>>>>
>>>> good job. Some feedback.
>>>>
>>>> The installScript has unused variables and your proxy settings exposed.
>>>> Maybe this should be deleted from the final build.
>>>>
>>>
>>> hahahahah I knew I was going to forget about that :( Thanks. Some
>>> bash guru that help me to automatize this? I would like something
>>> that automatically removes that from the file if it is found.
>>> Can you help me Miguel ?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Shouldn't be this a RC 2? because there is a new build process and
>>>> has nothing to do with the RC1?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I thought about putting it RC2, actually, I was going to do that.
>>> But as the PharoCore was named rc1, I din't want to name it rc2
>>> because maybe it was confusing.
>>> I am not sure, thus. What do you think ?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also, the changes files, shouldn't be compressed for each RC and
>>>> for the final release?
>>>
>>> Excellent point. Do you rather to Smalltalk >> condenseChanges ?  It
>>> can be perfectly added. Right now, we are doing all this:
>>>
>>>
>>>     MCFileBasedRepository flushAllCaches.
>>>     MCDefinition clearInstances.
>>>     Smalltalk removeEmptyMessageCategories.
>>>     Utilities cleanseOtherworldlySteppers.
>>>     Undeclared removeUnreferencedKeys.
>>>     Categorizer sortAllCategories.
>>>     Symbol compactSymbolTable.
>>>     Smalltalk at: #ReleaseBuilderDeveloper ifPresent: [:builder |
>>> builder new fixObsoleteReferences].
>>>     RequiredSelectors initialize.
>>>     ProvidedSelectors initialize.
>>>     LocalSends initialize.
>>>     Smalltalk organization removeEmptyCategories.
>>>     SystemBrowser removeObsolete.
>>>     TheWorldMenu removeObsolete.
>>>     AppRegistry removeObsolete.
>>>     Set rehashAllSets.
>>>     Smalltalk cleanOutUndeclared.
>>>     Smalltalk garbageCollect.
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you think something else should be addded?   Maybe we can reuse
>>> ScriptLoader cleanings ?
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also, the packages.txt file talks about PharoCore1.0 (#10505). Has
>>>> someone thought about the name shown in System->About:
>>>>
>>>> PharoCore1.0rc1
>>>> Latest update: #10505
>>>>
>>>> Because this is not a PharoCore image. Shouldn't this read
>>>> something like
>>>>
>>>> Pharo 1.0 Dev image.
>>>> Based on PharoCore1.0rc1
>>>> Latest update: #10505
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, that's true. I agree. At least it was not "my falt" as it was
>>> already like that. But I am agree we should change that. However, I
>>> don't know how to do it.
>>> Maybe something related to SystemVersion? Any help ?
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> What about the disabling of software updates in the Pharo dev/web
>>>> images? Will this be implemented or a careful update stream will be
>>>> made in order to not break a dev image with overrides (real
>>>> difficult I think).
>>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe. But in addition, sometimes there are bugs that updating just
>>> fix them. I am not sure if I want to disable. I rather warn people about it.
>>> Do you know if we break some overrrides doing an update?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Maybe all this setup can be put in a post-script in the
>>>> ConfigurationOfPharo class.
>>>
>>> It is. We have pre and post do its. So, no problem :)
>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's all for now. I'm going to use this image to work the
>>>> following days.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers and keep the good work.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks Miguel for the excellent feedback. Let's hope to build better
>>> images!
>>>
>>> Mariano
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Miguel Cobá
>>>> http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>

_______________________________________________
Pharo-project mailing list
[hidden email]
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_______________________________________________
Pharo-project mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Mariano,

 

Whether it makes sense or not, try it yourself.  Either Loader is more than you think it is, or it does something that is critical to allowing Metacello to succeed.

 

Bill

 

---

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck

Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 6:37 PM

To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN] Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1

2010/1/10 Miguel Enrique Cobá Martinez <[hidden email]>

El dom, 10-01-2010 a las 00:08 +0100, Matthias Berth escribió:

> Hi Bill,

>
> this one works for me with the current pharo core 1.0 rc1, update upto 10505
>
> "execute this:"
> Gofer new
>        squeaksource: 'Loader';
>        package: 'Loader';
>        load.
> "then this"
> Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'.
> "then this"
> Loader new
>        load: 'Seaside28' version: '2.8.4.2'
>
> The "Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'." loads a lot
> of additional pharo packages. I guess you won't need that just to get
> seaside working.
>

But isn't the loader alpha yet?

Maybe even before.  Hoever, it does not make sense. Loader is just a simplifier API to metacello. If Loader works with Seaside2.8,  ConfigurationOfSeaside28 MUST work too.
 

I mean, I am really expecting for Esteban to release it because is more
concise to write commands, but the issue here is the testing of the 1.0
release of pharo with the current available/stable tools, that is,
monticello, gofer and metacello.

Yes, please. Let's try to use this tools first. When we are stable enough we start with another ones. 

Cheers

Mariano

Cheers

--

Miguel Cobá
http://miguel.leugim.com.mx


_______________________________________________
Pharo-project mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

_______________________________________________
Pharo-project mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Mariano,

 

I'm aware of ScriptLoader because it is in the image, and presumably I was either told to use it or turned it up by browsing, perhaps for something that would load FFI.  If the image is missing critical pieces (FFI, Seaside, etc.), do not be surprised when people resort to search engines and browsers, and might find broken code or things that you do not want them to use.

 

Bill

 

---

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck

Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 7:05 PM

To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN] Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1

On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 12:35 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]> wrote:

Matthias,

That appears to have worked.  Let's see, we have Installer, ScriptLoader,

ScriptLoader is for internal use. If you use it, you are doing something wrong. You should not even be aware of that.
 

Configuration*,

Is the package managment. If you don't want to have to install all of the dependencies of all packages, and you don't want stable versions, don't use it.
 

Gofer,

If you don't want to automate your downloads, don't use it. You can use the Monticello Browser if you want.
 

etc., and now Loader =:0

Loader is not even in beta. And it is just a wrap to make Metacello easier.
 

 I'm guilty too, because I ended up writing Migrate in self defense.  Clearly something is missing in package management or we would not have so many different solutions to strongly overlapping problems.

I will have to repeat this because

 Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'.

did not seem to do much - makes me wonder whether I really ran it.  If not, then it appears not to be necessary for Seaside to at least load.

If this is in fact the correct way to install Seaside (I submit we need direction on that, unless you or Esteban are the authoritative source??), then it needs to get a link on the download page.  Therein, we should refer to (Smalltalk at:#Loader) rather than directly to Loader.

Please convey my thanks and respect to Esteban - not sure I want to know *how* this works :)

Esteban is in holidays for 2 weeks.

In summary, in my point of view, we now have to concentrate in use Metacello configurations. How you download your ConfXX is your problem. If you want to use Gofer, use it, if don't, user Monticello Browser. Don't use ScriptLoader. Loader shouldn't be used until we are more stable.
 
Cheers

Mariano

Thanks!!

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Matthias Berth
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 6:09 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN] Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1

Hi Bill,

this one works for me with the current pharo core 1.0 rc1, update upto 10505

"execute this:"
Gofer new
      squeaksource: 'Loader';
      package: 'Loader';
      load.
"then this"
Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'.
"then this"
Loader new
      load: 'Seaside28' version: '2.8.4.2'

The "Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'." loads a lot of additional pharo packages. I guess you won't need that just to get seaside working.

Ask Esteban Lorenzano for details about hw this works :)

Cheers

Matthias

2010/1/9 Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]>:

> Two can be tired of this.  I could just use the official Seaside
> images, but I thought it might be nice to help with testing the
> monthly images.  I won't get very far with that if Seaside won't load.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Mariano Martinez Peck
> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 4:38 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN]
> Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1
>
>
>
> 2010/1/9 Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]>
>>
>> Mariano,
>>
>> The reason I objected (and continue to do so) to clobbering the web
>> image is that complete chaos of how to install things comes into
>> play.  Assuming that I know what YOU said on the subject is a stretch
>> to say the least: try a search engine on the subject.
>>
>
> I am a bit tired of this. I will answer for the last time and I hope
> you
> understand: Do you want seaside ?
>
> 1) Volunteer yourself to build Web images. It is easy to ask, but what
> about doing?
>
> 2) Take the Web Image before, analize how seaside was installed and do
> it by yourself. I cannot take it more than half an hour.
>
> 3) Use official seaside image
>
> 4) Report what doesn't work with the ConfigurationOfSeaside in
> Metacello mailing list so that everybody can collaborate and fix it.
> If you see that mailing list, I did exactly that. Just saying "doesn't work"  does not help.
>
> Cheers
>
> Mariano
>
>>
>> BTW, it does not work.  There is very little I can do until Seaside loads.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>> Mariano Martinez Peck
>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 4:08 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN]
>> Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1
>>
>>
>>
>> 2010/1/9 Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>> Gofer seaside28 load
>>>
>>
>> I didn't say that. I said:
>>
>> Gofer new
>>     squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository';
>>     package: 'ConfigurationOfSeaside28';
>>     load.
>>
>> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfSeaside28) load
>>
>> And I also said I was not sure of this is working.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Mariano
>>
>>>
>>> does not work.  What is the correct way to install Seaside - I can't
>>> do much w/o it.
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: [hidden email]
>>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>>> Mariano Martinez Peck
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 3:01 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN]
>>> Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2010/1/9 Miguel Enrique Cobá Martinez <[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Mariano,
>>>>
>>>> good job. Some feedback.
>>>>
>>>> The installScript has unused variables and your proxy settings exposed.
>>>> Maybe this should be deleted from the final build.
>>>>
>>>
>>> hahahahah I knew I was going to forget about that :( Thanks. Some
>>> bash guru that help me to automatize this? I would like something
>>> that automatically removes that from the file if it is found.
>>> Can you help me Miguel ?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Shouldn't be this a RC 2? because there is a new build process and
>>>> has nothing to do with the RC1?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I thought about putting it RC2, actually, I was going to do that.
>>> But as the PharoCore was named rc1, I din't want to name it rc2
>>> because maybe it was confusing.
>>> I am not sure, thus. What do you think ?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also, the changes files, shouldn't be compressed for each RC and
>>>> for the final release?
>>>
>>> Excellent point. Do you rather to Smalltalk >> condenseChanges ?  It
>>> can be perfectly added. Right now, we are doing all this:
>>>
>>>
>>>     MCFileBasedRepository flushAllCaches.
>>>     MCDefinition clearInstances.
>>>     Smalltalk removeEmptyMessageCategories.
>>>     Utilities cleanseOtherworldlySteppers.
>>>     Undeclared removeUnreferencedKeys.
>>>     Categorizer sortAllCategories.
>>>     Symbol compactSymbolTable.
>>>     Smalltalk at: #ReleaseBuilderDeveloper ifPresent: [:builder |
>>> builder new fixObsoleteReferences].
>>>     RequiredSelectors initialize.
>>>     ProvidedSelectors initialize.
>>>     LocalSends initialize.
>>>     Smalltalk organization removeEmptyCategories.
>>>     SystemBrowser removeObsolete.
>>>     TheWorldMenu removeObsolete.
>>>     AppRegistry removeObsolete.
>>>     Set rehashAllSets.
>>>     Smalltalk cleanOutUndeclared.
>>>     Smalltalk garbageCollect.
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you think something else should be addded?   Maybe we can reuse
>>> ScriptLoader cleanings ?
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also, the packages.txt file talks about PharoCore1.0 (#10505). Has
>>>> someone thought about the name shown in System->About:
>>>>
>>>> PharoCore1.0rc1
>>>> Latest update: #10505
>>>>
>>>> Because this is not a PharoCore image. Shouldn't this read
>>>> something like
>>>>
>>>> Pharo 1.0 Dev image.
>>>> Based on PharoCore1.0rc1
>>>> Latest update: #10505
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, that's true. I agree. At least it was not "my falt" as it was
>>> already like that. But I am agree we should change that. However, I
>>> don't know how to do it.
>>> Maybe something related to SystemVersion? Any help ?
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> What about the disabling of software updates in the Pharo dev/web
>>>> images? Will this be implemented or a careful update stream will be
>>>> made in order to not break a dev image with overrides (real
>>>> difficult I think).
>>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe. But in addition, sometimes there are bugs that updating just
>>> fix them. I am not sure if I want to disable. I rather warn people about it.
>>> Do you know if we break some overrrides doing an update?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Maybe all this setup can be put in a post-script in the
>>>> ConfigurationOfPharo class.
>>>
>>> It is. We have pre and post do its. So, no problem :)
>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's all for now. I'm going to use this image to work the
>>>> following days.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers and keep the good work.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks Miguel for the excellent feedback. Let's hope to build better
>>> images!
>>>
>>> Mariano
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Miguel Cobá
>>>> http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>

_______________________________________________
Pharo-project mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

_______________________________________________
Pharo-project mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

_______________________________________________
Pharo-project mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Mariano,

 

Whether it makes sense or not, try it yourself.  Either Loader is more than you think it is, or it does something that is critical to allowing Metacello to succeed.

 

Bill

 

---

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck

Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 6:37 PM

To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN] Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1

2010/1/10 Miguel Enrique Cobá Martinez <[hidden email]>

El dom, 10-01-2010 a las 00:08 +0100, Matthias Berth escribió:

> Hi Bill,

>
> this one works for me with the current pharo core 1.0 rc1, update upto 10505
>
> "execute this:"
> Gofer new
>        squeaksource: 'Loader';
>        package: 'Loader';
>        load.
> "then this"
> Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'.
> "then this"
> Loader new
>        load: 'Seaside28' version: '2.8.4.2'
>
> The "Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'." loads a lot
> of additional pharo packages. I guess you won't need that just to get
> seaside working.
>

But isn't the loader alpha yet?

Maybe even before.  Hoever, it does not make sense. Loader is just a simplifier API to metacello. If Loader works with Seaside2.8,  ConfigurationOfSeaside28 MUST work too.
 

I mean, I am really expecting for Esteban to release it because is more
concise to write commands, but the issue here is the testing of the 1.0
release of pharo with the current available/stable tools, that is,
monticello, gofer and metacello.

Yes, please. Let's try to use this tools first. When we are stable enough we start with another ones. 

Cheers

Mariano

Cheers

--

Miguel Cobá
http://miguel.leugim.com.mx


_______________________________________________
Pharo-project mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

_______________________________________________
Pharo-project mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Mariano,

 

I'm aware of ScriptLoader because it is in the image, and presumably I was either told to use it or turned it up by browsing, perhaps for something that would load FFI.  If the image is missing critical pieces (FFI, Seaside, etc.), do not be surprised when people resort to search engines and browsers, and might find broken code or things that you do not want them to use.

 

Bill

 

---

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck

Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 7:05 PM

To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN] Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1

On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 12:35 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]> wrote:

Matthias,

That appears to have worked.  Let's see, we have Installer, ScriptLoader,

ScriptLoader is for internal use. If you use it, you are doing something wrong. You should not even be aware of that.
 

Configuration*,

Is the package managment. If you don't want to have to install all of the dependencies of all packages, and you don't want stable versions, don't use it.
 

Gofer,

If you don't want to automate your downloads, don't use it. You can use the Monticello Browser if you want.
 

etc., and now Loader =:0

Loader is not even in beta. And it is just a wrap to make Metacello easier.
 

 I'm guilty too, because I ended up writing Migrate in self defense.  Clearly something is missing in package management or we would not have so many different solutions to strongly overlapping problems.

I will have to repeat this because

 Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'.

did not seem to do much - makes me wonder whether I really ran it.  If not, then it appears not to be necessary for Seaside to at least load.

If this is in fact the correct way to install Seaside (I submit we need direction on that, unless you or Esteban are the authoritative source??), then it needs to get a link on the download page.  Therein, we should refer to (Smalltalk at:#Loader) rather than directly to Loader.

Please convey my thanks and respect to Esteban - not sure I want to know *how* this works :)

Esteban is in holidays for 2 weeks.

In summary, in my point of view, we now have to concentrate in use Metacello configurations. How you download your ConfXX is your problem. If you want to use Gofer, use it, if don't, user Monticello Browser. Don't use ScriptLoader. Loader shouldn't be used until we are more stable.
 
Cheers

Mariano

Thanks!!

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Matthias Berth
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 6:09 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN] Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1

Hi Bill,

this one works for me with the current pharo core 1.0 rc1, update upto 10505

"execute this:"
Gofer new
      squeaksource: 'Loader';
      package: 'Loader';
      load.
"then this"
Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'.
"then this"
Loader new
      load: 'Seaside28' version: '2.8.4.2'

The "Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'." loads a lot of additional pharo packages. I guess you won't need that just to get seaside working.

Ask Esteban Lorenzano for details about hw this works :)

Cheers

Matthias

2010/1/9 Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]>:

> Two can be tired of this.  I could just use the official Seaside
> images, but I thought it might be nice to help with testing the
> monthly images.  I won't get very far with that if Seaside won't load.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Mariano Martinez Peck
> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 4:38 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN]
> Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1
>
>
>
> 2010/1/9 Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]>
>>
>> Mariano,
>>
>> The reason I objected (and continue to do so) to clobbering the web
>> image is that complete chaos of how to install things comes into
>> play.  Assuming that I know what YOU said on the subject is a stretch
>> to say the least: try a search engine on the subject.
>>
>
> I am a bit tired of this. I will answer for the last time and I hope
> you
> understand: Do you want seaside ?
>
> 1) Volunteer yourself to build Web images. It is easy to ask, but what
> about doing?
>
> 2) Take the Web Image before, analize how seaside was installed and do
> it by yourself. I cannot take it more than half an hour.
>
> 3) Use official seaside image
>
> 4) Report what doesn't work with the ConfigurationOfSeaside in
> Metacello mailing list so that everybody can collaborate and fix it.
> If you see that mailing list, I did exactly that. Just saying "doesn't work"  does not help.
>
> Cheers
>
> Mariano
>
>>
>> BTW, it does not work.  There is very little I can do until Seaside loads.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>> Mariano Martinez Peck
>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 4:08 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN]
>> Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1
>>
>>
>>
>> 2010/1/9 Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>> Gofer seaside28 load
>>>
>>
>> I didn't say that. I said:
>>
>> Gofer new
>>     squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository';
>>     package: 'ConfigurationOfSeaside28';
>>     load.
>>
>> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfSeaside28) load
>>
>> And I also said I was not sure of this is working.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Mariano
>>
>>>
>>> does not work.  What is the correct way to install Seaside - I can't
>>> do much w/o it.
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: [hidden email]
>>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>>> Mariano Martinez Peck
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 3:01 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN]
>>> Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2010/1/9 Miguel Enrique Cobá Martinez <[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Mariano,
>>>>
>>>> good job. Some feedback.
>>>>
>>>> The installScript has unused variables and your proxy settings exposed.
>>>> Maybe this should be deleted from the final build.
>>>>
>>>
>>> hahahahah I knew I was going to forget about that :( Thanks. Some
>>> bash guru that help me to automatize this? I would like something
>>> that automatically removes that from the file if it is found.
>>> Can you help me Miguel ?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Shouldn't be this a RC 2? because there is a new build process and
>>>> has nothing to do with the RC1?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I thought about putting it RC2, actually, I was going to do that.
>>> But as the PharoCore was named rc1, I din't want to name it rc2
>>> because maybe it was confusing.
>>> I am not sure, thus. What do you think ?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also, the changes files, shouldn't be compressed for each RC and
>>>> for the final release?
>>>
>>> Excellent point. Do you rather to Smalltalk >> condenseChanges ?  It
>>> can be perfectly added. Right now, we are doing all this:
>>>
>>>
>>>     MCFileBasedRepository flushAllCaches.
>>>     MCDefinition clearInstances.
>>>     Smalltalk removeEmptyMessageCategories.
>>>     Utilities cleanseOtherworldlySteppers.
>>>     Undeclared removeUnreferencedKeys.
>>>     Categorizer sortAllCategories.
>>>     Symbol compactSymbolTable.
>>>     Smalltalk at: #ReleaseBuilderDeveloper ifPresent: [:builder |
>>> builder new fixObsoleteReferences].
>>>     RequiredSelectors initialize.
>>>     ProvidedSelectors initialize.
>>>     LocalSends initialize.
>>>     Smalltalk organization removeEmptyCategories.
>>>     SystemBrowser removeObsolete.
>>>     TheWorldMenu removeObsolete.
>>>     AppRegistry removeObsolete.
>>>     Set rehashAllSets.
>>>     Smalltalk cleanOutUndeclared.
>>>     Smalltalk garbageCollect.
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you think something else should be addded?   Maybe we can reuse
>>> ScriptLoader cleanings ?
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also, the packages.txt file talks about PharoCore1.0 (#10505). Has
>>>> someone thought about the name shown in System->About:
>>>>
>>>> PharoCore1.0rc1
>>>> Latest update: #10505
>>>>
>>>> Because this is not a PharoCore image. Shouldn't this read
>>>> something like
>>>>
>>>> Pharo 1.0 Dev image.
>>>> Based on PharoCore1.0rc1
>>>> Latest update: #10505
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, that's true. I agree. At least it was not "my falt" as it was
>>> already like that. But I am agree we should change that. However, I
>>> don't know how to do it.
>>> Maybe something related to SystemVersion? Any help ?
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> What about the disabling of software updates in the Pharo dev/web
>>>> images? Will this be implemented or a careful update stream will be
>>>> made in order to not break a dev image with overrides (real
>>>> difficult I think).
>>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe. But in addition, sometimes there are bugs that updating just
>>> fix them. I am not sure if I want to disable. I rather warn people about it.
>>> Do you know if we break some overrrides doing an update?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Maybe all this setup can be put in a post-script in the
>>>> ConfigurationOfPharo class.
>>>
>>> It is. We have pre and post do its. So, no problem :)
>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's all for now. I'm going to use this image to work the
>>>> following days.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers and keep the good work.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks Miguel for the excellent feedback. Let's hope to build better
>>> images!
>>>
>>> Mariano
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Miguel Cobá
>>>> http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>

_______________________________________________
Pharo-project mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

_______________________________________________
Pharo-project mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

_______________________________________________
Pharo-project mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

That does work. 

As with the Loader solution, it prompts for the user name and password; other solutions available trap those and provide reasonable defaults, which is nice for automated builds.

 

---

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck

Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 7:34 PM

To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN] Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1

2010/1/10 Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]>

Mariano,

 

Whether it makes sense or not, try it yourself.  Either Loader is more than you think it is, or it does something that is critical to allowing Metacello to succeed.

 

Can you try this and tell me if it works:

Gofer new
    squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository';
    package: 'ConfigurationOfSeaside28';
    load.

((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfSeaside28) project version: '2.8.4.2') load

 

Bill

 

---

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck

Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 6:37 PM

To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN] Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1

2010/1/10 Miguel Enrique Cobá Martinez <[hidden email]>

El dom, 10-01-2010 a las 00:08 +0100, Matthias Berth escribió:

> Hi Bill,

>
> this one works for me with the current pharo core 1.0 rc1, update upto 10505
>
> "execute this:"
> Gofer new
>        squeaksource: 'Loader';
>        package: 'Loader';
>        load.
> "then this"
> Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'.
> "then this"
> Loader new
>        load: 'Seaside28' version: '2.8.4.2'
>
> The "Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'." loads a lot
> of additional pharo packages. I guess you won't need that just to get
> seaside working.
>

But isn't the loader alpha yet?

Maybe even before.  Hoever, it does not make sense. Loader is just a simplifier API to metacello. If Loader works with Seaside2.8,  ConfigurationOfSeaside28 MUST work too.
 

I mean, I am really expecting for Esteban to release it because is more
concise to write commands, but the issue here is the testing of the 1.0
release of pharo with the current available/stable tools, that is,
monticello, gofer and metacello.

Yes, please. Let's try to use this tools first. When we are stable enough we start with another ones. 

Cheers

Mariano

Cheers

--

Miguel Cobá
http://miguel.leugim.com.mx


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Very good - I will get that into Migrate.

 

Bill

 

 

---

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck

Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 7:37 PM

To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN] Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1

2010/1/10 Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]>

Mariano,

 

I'm aware of ScriptLoader because it is in the image, and presumably I was either told to use it or turned it up by browsing, perhaps for something that would load FFI.  If the image is missing critical pieces (FFI, Seaside, etc.), do not be surprised when people resort to search engines and browsers, and might find broken code or things that you do not want them to use.

Yes, true. I didn't mean that YOU were doing something wrong, but that there WERE something wrong.

In addition, we have already wrote a ConfigurationOfFFI.  Just evaluate:

Gofer new
squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository';
package: 'ConfigurationOfFFI';
load.

((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfFFI) project version:'1.0') load

Cheers

Mariano
 

 

Bill

 

---

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck

Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 7:05 PM

To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN] Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1

On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 12:35 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]> wrote:

Matthias,

That appears to have worked.  Let's see, we have Installer, ScriptLoader,

ScriptLoader is for internal use. If you use it, you are doing something wrong. You should not even be aware of that.
 

Configuration*,

Is the package managment. If you don't want to have to install all of the dependencies of all packages, and you don't want stable versions, don't use it.
 

Gofer,

If you don't want to automate your downloads, don't use it. You can use the Monticello Browser if you want.
 

etc., and now Loader =:0

Loader is not even in beta. And it is just a wrap to make Metacello easier.
 

 I'm guilty too, because I ended up writing Migrate in self defense.  Clearly something is missing in package management or we would not have so many different solutions to strongly overlapping problems.

I will have to repeat this because

 Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'.

did not seem to do much - makes me wonder whether I really ran it.  If not, then it appears not to be necessary for Seaside to at least load.

If this is in fact the correct way to install Seaside (I submit we need direction on that, unless you or Esteban are the authoritative source??), then it needs to get a link on the download page.  Therein, we should refer to (Smalltalk at:#Loader) rather than directly to Loader.

Please convey my thanks and respect to Esteban - not sure I want to know *how* this works :)

Esteban is in holidays for 2 weeks.

In summary, in my point of view, we now have to concentrate in use Metacello configurations. How you download your ConfXX is your problem. If you want to use Gofer, use it, if don't, user Monticello Browser. Don't use ScriptLoader. Loader shouldn't be used until we are more stable.
 
Cheers

Mariano

Thanks!!

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Matthias Berth
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 6:09 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN] Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1

Hi Bill,

this one works for me with the current pharo core 1.0 rc1, update upto 10505

"execute this:"
Gofer new
      squeaksource: 'Loader';
      package: 'Loader';
      load.
"then this"
Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'.
"then this"
Loader new
      load: 'Seaside28' version: '2.8.4.2'

The "Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'." loads a lot of additional pharo packages. I guess you won't need that just to get seaside working.

Ask Esteban Lorenzano for details about hw this works :)

Cheers

Matthias

2010/1/9 Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]>:

> Two can be tired of this.  I could just use the official Seaside
> images, but I thought it might be nice to help with testing the
> monthly images.  I won't get very far with that if Seaside won't load.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Mariano Martinez Peck
> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 4:38 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN]
> Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1
>
>
>
> 2010/1/9 Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]>
>>
>> Mariano,
>>
>> The reason I objected (and continue to do so) to clobbering the web
>> image is that complete chaos of how to install things comes into
>> play.  Assuming that I know what YOU said on the subject is a stretch
>> to say the least: try a search engine on the subject.
>>
>
> I am a bit tired of this. I will answer for the last time and I hope
> you
> understand: Do you want seaside ?
>
> 1) Volunteer yourself to build Web images. It is easy to ask, but what
> about doing?
>
> 2) Take the Web Image before, analize how seaside was installed and do
> it by yourself. I cannot take it more than half an hour.
>
> 3) Use official seaside image
>
> 4) Report what doesn't work with the ConfigurationOfSeaside in
> Metacello mailing list so that everybody can collaborate and fix it.
> If you see that mailing list, I did exactly that. Just saying "doesn't work"  does not help.
>
> Cheers
>
> Mariano
>
>>
>> BTW, it does not work.  There is very little I can do until Seaside loads.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>> Mariano Martinez Peck
>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 4:08 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN]
>> Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1
>>
>>
>>
>> 2010/1/9 Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>> Gofer seaside28 load
>>>
>>
>> I didn't say that. I said:
>>
>> Gofer new
>>     squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository';
>>     package: 'ConfigurationOfSeaside28';
>>     load.
>>
>> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfSeaside28) load
>>
>> And I also said I was not sure of this is working.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Mariano
>>
>>>
>>> does not work.  What is the correct way to install Seaside - I can't
>>> do much w/o it.
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: [hidden email]
>>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>>> Mariano Martinez Peck
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 3:01 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN]
>>> Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2010/1/9 Miguel Enrique Cobá Martinez <[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Mariano,
>>>>
>>>> good job. Some feedback.
>>>>
>>>> The installScript has unused variables and your proxy settings exposed.
>>>> Maybe this should be deleted from the final build.
>>>>
>>>
>>> hahahahah I knew I was going to forget about that :( Thanks. Some
>>> bash guru that help me to automatize this? I would like something
>>> that automatically removes that from the file if it is found.
>>> Can you help me Miguel ?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Shouldn't be this a RC 2? because there is a new build process and
>>>> has nothing to do with the RC1?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I thought about putting it RC2, actually, I was going to do that.
>>> But as the PharoCore was named rc1, I din't want to name it rc2
>>> because maybe it was confusing.
>>> I am not sure, thus. What do you think ?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also, the changes files, shouldn't be compressed for each RC and
>>>> for the final release?
>>>
>>> Excellent point. Do you rather to Smalltalk >> condenseChanges ?  It
>>> can be perfectly added. Right now, we are doing all this:
>>>
>>>
>>>     MCFileBasedRepository flushAllCaches.
>>>     MCDefinition clearInstances.
>>>     Smalltalk removeEmptyMessageCategories.
>>>     Utilities cleanseOtherworldlySteppers.
>>>     Undeclared removeUnreferencedKeys.
>>>     Categorizer sortAllCategories.
>>>     Symbol compactSymbolTable.
>>>     Smalltalk at: #ReleaseBuilderDeveloper ifPresent: [:builder |
>>> builder new fixObsoleteReferences].
>>>     RequiredSelectors initialize.
>>>     ProvidedSelectors initialize.
>>>     LocalSends initialize.
>>>     Smalltalk organization removeEmptyCategories.
>>>     SystemBrowser removeObsolete.
>>>     TheWorldMenu removeObsolete.
>>>     AppRegistry removeObsolete.
>>>     Set rehashAllSets.
>>>     Smalltalk cleanOutUndeclared.
>>>     Smalltalk garbageCollect.
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you think something else should be addded?   Maybe we can reuse
>>> ScriptLoader cleanings ?
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also, the packages.txt file talks about PharoCore1.0 (#10505). Has
>>>> someone thought about the name shown in System->About:
>>>>
>>>> PharoCore1.0rc1
>>>> Latest update: #10505
>>>>
>>>> Because this is not a PharoCore image. Shouldn't this read
>>>> something like
>>>>
>>>> Pharo 1.0 Dev image.
>>>> Based on PharoCore1.0rc1
>>>> Latest update: #10505
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, that's true. I agree. At least it was not "my falt" as it was
>>> already like that. But I am agree we should change that. However, I
>>> don't know how to do it.
>>> Maybe something related to SystemVersion? Any help ?
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> What about the disabling of software updates in the Pharo dev/web
>>>> images? Will this be implemented or a careful update stream will be
>>>> made in order to not break a dev image with overrides (real
>>>> difficult I think).
>>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe. But in addition, sometimes there are bugs that updating just
>>> fix them. I am not sure if I want to disable. I rather warn people about it.
>>> Do you know if we break some overrrides doing an update?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Maybe all this setup can be put in a post-script in the
>>>> ConfigurationOfPharo class.
>>>
>>> It is. We have pre and post do its. So, no problem :)
>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's all for now. I'm going to use this image to work the
>>>> following days.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers and keep the good work.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks Miguel for the excellent feedback. Let's hope to build better
>>> images!
>>>
>>> Mariano
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Miguel Cobá
>>>> http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

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Whatever you guys want, so long as it indeed works.  With the explicit version, ConfigurationOfSeaside28 seems to do the trick.  I suggest adding a link to the downloads page with code for FFI and Seaside for starters.

Another idea would be to add class methods to Gofer that use Metacello.  The existing #seaside28 should be rewritten or removed.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Miguel Enrique Cobá Martinez

Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 7:45 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN] Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1

El sáb, 09-01-2010 a las 18:58 -0500, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
> Miguel,
>
> My concern is over testing of the RC images.  Whether Loader is alpha or not seems a little less important than providing what people will need in order to test.  As a friend of mine would say, "don't make it hard on people to help you."
>
> I will gladly download a web image, run something in production, or run an alpha installer.  The important thing is to have a clear message and a working solution to the problem.
>
> Bill

Yes, but Loader hasn't been announced yet. That is the point. Lets concentrate in Gofer/Metacello that is the _blessed_ way to install in Pharo 1.0

Cheers
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Miguel Enrique Cobá Martinez
> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 6:21 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN]
> Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1
>
> El dom, 10-01-2010 a las 00:08 +0100, Matthias Berth escribió:
> > Hi Bill,
> >
> > this one works for me with the current pharo core 1.0 rc1, update
> > upto
> > 10505
> >
> > "execute this:"
> > Gofer new
> >        squeaksource: 'Loader';
> >        package: 'Loader';
> >        load.
> > "then this"
> > Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'.
> > "then this"
> > Loader new
> >        load: 'Seaside28' version: '2.8.4.2'
> >
> > The "Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'." loads a lot
> > of additional pharo packages. I guess you won't need that just to
> > get seaside working.
> >
>
> But isn't the loader alpha yet?
>
> I mean, I am really expecting for Esteban to release it because is more concise to write commands, but the issue here is the testing of the 1.0 release of pharo with the current available/stable tools, that is, monticello, gofer and metacello.
>
> Cheers
>
> --
> Miguel Cobá
> http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

--
Miguel Cobá
http://miguel.leugim.com.mx


_______________________________________________
Pharo-project mailing list
[hidden email]
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Whatever you guys want, so long as it indeed works.  With the explicit version, ConfigurationOfSeaside28 seems to do the trick.  I suggest adding a link to the downloads page with code for FFI and Seaside for starters.

Another idea would be to add class methods to Gofer that use Metacello.  The existing #seaside28 should be rewritten or removed.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Miguel Enrique Cobá Martinez

Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 7:45 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN] Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1

El sáb, 09-01-2010 a las 18:58 -0500, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
> Miguel,
>
> My concern is over testing of the RC images.  Whether Loader is alpha or not seems a little less important than providing what people will need in order to test.  As a friend of mine would say, "don't make it hard on people to help you."
>
> I will gladly download a web image, run something in production, or run an alpha installer.  The important thing is to have a clear message and a working solution to the problem.
>
> Bill

Yes, but Loader hasn't been announced yet. That is the point. Lets concentrate in Gofer/Metacello that is the _blessed_ way to install in Pharo 1.0

Cheers

>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Miguel Enrique Cobá Martinez
> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 6:21 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [BetaTesting] [ANN]
> Pharo1.0-10505-rc1dev10.01.1
>
> El dom, 10-01-2010 a las 00:08 +0100, Matthias Berth escribió:
> > Hi Bill,
> >
> > this one works for me with the current pharo core 1.0 rc1, update
> > upto
> > 10505
> >
> > "execute this:"
> > Gofer new
> >        squeaksource: 'Loader';
> >        package: 'Loader';
> >        load.
> > "then this"
> > Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'.
> > "then this"
> > Loader new
> >        load: 'Seaside28' version: '2.8.4.2'
> >
> > The "Loader new load: 'Pharo' version: '1.0-rc2.10505'." loads a lot
> > of additional pharo packages. I guess you won't need that just to
> > get seaside working.
> >
>
> But isn't the loader alpha yet?
>
> I mean, I am really expecting for Esteban to release it because is more concise to write commands, but the issue here is the testing of the 1.0 release of pharo with the current available/stable tools, that is, monticello, gofer and metacello.
>
> Cheers
>
> --
> Miguel Cobá
> http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

--
Miguel Cobá
http://miguel.leugim.com.mx


_______________________________________________
Pharo-project mailing list
[hidden email]
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