Could we fix the web site

> Hi all
>
> Happy new years. I wish you a lot of fun and success for your
> squeaking projects.
>
>
> Now I would like to know if this is possible to fix the squeak web site.
> I was a nice idea to put the news seeds in the web site but but but.
>     - we do not control the contents
>     - some of them are not really squeaking
>     - some of them contain a lot of typos.
>
>     "Croquet Edit and Create 3d Objects
> Howard Stearns reciently replyed to a question from Mathieu. I thought
> I’d reporduce his response here. Howard give a lot of very good
> information about Croquet support for third party tools...."
>     Sorry but I do not know who is mathieu :) and this give me the
> impression to get in a private discussion.
>
>
> I want to be **proud** to put a link on http:/www.squeak.org/ on
> important documents.
> So could we ut the welcome section right on the top. and the news
> after the portal.
>
> Stef
>
>
>
>

> Hi karl
>
> my point is about the place of the news on the web site. I think that
> we need something that anybody (and certainly someone
> evaluating me can understand). When people click on my cv on the
> squeak web site, it should be great.
> And the news section should not be the top items. Or I can remove all
> the links I have on my sites and cv to squeak.org but this
> would be sad because imagine a person not knowing anything about
> squeak going to the site and reading the first paragraph right now.

>
>>>
>>> Stef
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> The news feed is from news.squeak.org so if you join the news team
>> you will be able to post directly.
>
> I do not want. I have nothing against news and I have nothing to say.

>
>> Typos and other standards of posting to the news feed should probably
>> be addressed to the news team.
>> Karl
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

> stephane ducasse wrote:
>> Hi karl
>>
>> my point is about the place of the news on the web site. I think  
>> that we need something that anybody (and certainly someone
>> evaluating me can understand). When people click on my cv on the  
>> squeak web site, it should be great.
>> And the news section should not be the top items. Or I can remove  
>> all the links I have on my sites and cv to squeak.org but this
>> would be sad because imagine a person not knowing anything about  
>> squeak going to the site and reading the first paragraph right now.
> The first paragraph is about the OLPC which has Squeak as part of  
> it's software. I would consider that a very big news item.
> The frontpage got very static and nobody updated it and nobody  
> wants to lead the web team so this was a good solution for us,  
> since a webpage that newer changes is a dead webpage, at least in  
> my book.
>
>>
>>>>
>>>> Stef
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> The news feed is from news.squeak.org so if you join the news  
>>> team you will be able to post directly.
>>
>> I do not want. I have nothing against news and I have nothing to say.
> I find that hard to believe ;-)
> Karl
>>
>>> Typos and other standards of posting to the news feed should  
>>> probably be addressed to the news team.
>>> Karl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

> Hi karl
>
> my point is about the place of the news on the web site. I think that  
> we need something that anybody (and certainly someone
> evaluating me can understand). When people click on my cv on the  
> squeak web site, it should be great.
> And the news section should not be the top items. Or I can remove all  
> the links I have on my sites and cv to squeak.org but this
> would be sad because imagine a person not knowing anything about  
> squeak going to the site and reading the first paragraph right now.

> stephane ducasse wrote:
>> Hi karl
>>
>> my point is about the place of the news on the web site. I think  
>> that we need something that anybody (and certainly someone
>> evaluating me can understand). When people click on my cv on the  
>> squeak web site, it should be great.
>> And the news section should not be the top items. Or I can remove  
>> all the links I have on my sites and cv to squeak.org but this
>> would be sad because imagine a person not knowing anything about  
>> squeak going to the site and reading the first paragraph right now.
> The first paragraph is about the OLPC which has Squeak as part of  
> it's software. I would consider that a very big news item.
> The frontpage got very static and nobody updated it and nobody  
> wants to lead the web team so this was a good solution for us,  
> since a webpage that newer changes is a dead webpage, at least in  
> my book.
>
>>
>>>>
>>>> Stef
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> The news feed is from news.squeak.org so if you join the news  
>>> team you will be able to post directly.
>>
>> I do not want. I have nothing against news and I have nothing to say.
> I find that hard to believe ;-)
> Karl
>>
>>> Typos and other standards of posting to the news feed should  
>>> probably be addressed to the news team.
>>> Karl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

> Karl
>
> really I'm quite annoyed. I cannot tell you all the story behind my
> mail but this is not a simple idiot remark.
> Can't we get the welcome paragraph in the first place?
> Should I really totally boycott Squeak?
> Don't you understand that we are in a world where people communicate
> and judge on form?
>
> News Feed as a title of the first item of the page that describes
> squeak is not a smart choice. For somehow not knowing at all
> what squeak is about and that does not really care about getting
> involved but just want to give a glance.

>
> Then there are 5 typos in the following text. So the fact that we do
> not control (or may be somebody edited the text and the list by hand)
>  what is published there would push us to be cautious and not put it
> up front.
>
>     "Croquet Edit and Create 3d Objects
> Howard Stearns reciently replyed to a question from Mathieu. I thought
> I’d reporduce his response here. Howard give a lot of very good
> information about Croquet support for third party tools...."

> Karl
>
> really I'm quite annoyed. I cannot tell you all the story behind my  
> mail but this is not a simple idiot remark.
> Can't we get the welcome paragraph in the first place?
> Should I really totally boycott Squeak?
> Don't you understand that we are in a world where people  
> communicate and judge on form?
>
> News Feed as a title of the first item of the page that describes  
> squeak is not a smart choice. For somehow not knowing at all
> what squeak is about and that does not really care about getting  
> involved but just want to give a glance.
>
> Then there are 5 typos in the following text. So the fact that we  
> do not control (or may be somebody edited the text and the list by  
> hand)
>  what is published there would push us to be cautious and not put  
> it up front.
>
> "Croquet Edit and Create 3d Objects
> Howard Stearns reciently replyed to a question from Mathieu. I  
> thought I’d reporduce his response here. Howard give a lot of very  
> good information about Croquet support for third party tools...."
>
> So what I suggest is to swap the welcome and the news feeds. I  
> think that this is important.
>
> Stef
>
> On 6 janv. 07, at 18:53, Karl wrote:
>
>> stephane ducasse wrote:
>>> Hi karl
>>>
>>> my point is about the place of the news on the web site. I think  
>>> that we need something that anybody (and certainly someone
>>> evaluating me can understand). When people click on my cv on the  
>>> squeak web site, it should be great.
>>> And the news section should not be the top items. Or I can remove  
>>> all the links I have on my sites and cv to squeak.org but this
>>> would be sad because imagine a person not knowing anything about  
>>> squeak going to the site and reading the first paragraph right now.
>> The first paragraph is about the OLPC which has Squeak as part of  
>> it's software. I would consider that a very big news item.
>> The frontpage got very static and nobody updated it and nobody  
>> wants to lead the web team so this was a good solution for us,  
>> since a webpage that newer changes is a dead webpage, at least in  
>> my book.
>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Stef
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> The news feed is from news.squeak.org so if you join the news  
>>>> team you will be able to post directly.
>>>
>>> I do not want. I have nothing against news and I have nothing to  
>>> say.
>> I find that hard to believe ;-)
>> Karl
>>>
>>>> Typos and other standards of posting to the news feed should  
>>>> probably be addressed to the news team.
>>>> Karl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

>From: Joshua Gargus <[hidden email]>
>Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers
>list<[hidden email]>
>To: The general-purpose Squeak developers
>list<[hidden email]>
>Subject: Re: Could we fix the web site
>Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 12:00:05 -0800
>
>Stephane makes a good point.  If we want http://squeak.org to be the  
>public face of Squeak to the outside world, then the news feeds  should
>absolutely not appear at the very top.  Instead, the Welcome!  section
>should come first to give a basic understanding of the entire  site. That
>much is clear (right?  if not, why?)
>
>We could then go on to debate some more ambiguous decisions.  For  example,
>within the news section, I would put the squeak.org-specific  "Posted News"
>above the external "News Feeds".  However, I have other  things to do this
>fine Saturday than to push hard on that point, or  similar ones.
>
>Happy weekend Squeaking,
>Josh
>
>
>On Jan 6, 2007, at 10:28 AM, stephane ducasse wrote:
>
>>Karl
>>
>>really I'm quite annoyed. I cannot tell you all the story behind my  mail
>>but this is not a simple idiot remark.
>>Can't we get the welcome paragraph in the first place?
>>Should I really totally boycott Squeak?
>>Don't you understand that we are in a world where people  communicate and
>>judge on form?
>>
>>News Feed as a title of the first item of the page that describes  squeak
>>is not a smart choice. For somehow not knowing at all
>>what squeak is about and that does not really care about getting  involved
>>but just want to give a glance.
>>
>>Then there are 5 typos in the following text. So the fact that we  do not
>>control (or may be somebody edited the text and the list by  hand)
>>  what is published there would push us to be cautious and not put  it up
>>front.
>>
>> "Croquet Edit and Create 3d Objects
>>Howard Stearns reciently replyed to a question from Mathieu. I  thought
>>I’d reporduce his response here. Howard give a lot of very  good
>>information about Croquet support for third party tools...."
>>
>>So what I suggest is to swap the welcome and the news feeds. I  think that
>>this is important.
>>
>>Stef
>>
>>On 6 janv. 07, at 18:53, Karl wrote:
>>
>>>stephane ducasse wrote:
>>>>Hi karl
>>>>
>>>>my point is about the place of the news on the web site. I think  that
>>>>we need something that anybody (and certainly someone
>>>>evaluating me can understand). When people click on my cv on the  squeak
>>>>web site, it should be great.
>>>>And the news section should not be the top items. Or I can remove  all
>>>>the links I have on my sites and cv to squeak.org but this
>>>>would be sad because imagine a person not knowing anything about  squeak
>>>>going to the site and reading the first paragraph right now.
>>>The first paragraph is about the OLPC which has Squeak as part of  it's
>>>software. I would consider that a very big news item.
>>>The frontpage got very static and nobody updated it and nobody  wants to
>>>lead the web team so this was a good solution for us,  since a webpage
>>>that newer changes is a dead webpage, at least in  my book.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Stef
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>The news feed is from news.squeak.org so if you join the news  team you
>>>>>will be able to post directly.
>>>>
>>>>I do not want. I have nothing against news and I have nothing to  say.
>>>I find that hard to believe ;-)
>>>Karl
>>>>
>>>>>Typos and other standards of posting to the news feed should  probably
>>>>>be addressed to the news team.
>>>>>Karl
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

>
> Well what do other people do?  Haskell is pretty popular these  
> days.  Here is their site:
> http://haskell.org
>
>
>
>> From: Joshua Gargus <[hidden email]>
>> Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list<squeak-
>> [hidden email]>
>> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list<squeak-
>> [hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: Could we fix the web site
>> Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 12:00:05 -0800
>>
>> Stephane makes a good point.  If we want http://squeak.org to be  
>> the  public face of Squeak to the outside world, then the news  
>> feeds  should absolutely not appear at the very top.  Instead, the  
>> Welcome!  section should come first to give a basic understanding  
>> of the entire  site. That much is clear (right?  if not, why?)
>>
>> We could then go on to debate some more ambiguous decisions.  For  
>> example, within the news section, I would put the squeak.org-
>> specific  "Posted News" above the external "News Feeds".  However,  
>> I have other  things to do this fine Saturday than to push hard on  
>> that point, or  similar ones.
>>
>> Happy weekend Squeaking,
>> Josh
>>
>>
>> On Jan 6, 2007, at 10:28 AM, stephane ducasse wrote:
>>
>>> Karl
>>>
>>> really I'm quite annoyed. I cannot tell you all the story behind  
>>> my  mail but this is not a simple idiot remark.
>>> Can't we get the welcome paragraph in the first place?
>>> Should I really totally boycott Squeak?
>>> Don't you understand that we are in a world where people  
>>> communicate and judge on form?
>>>
>>> News Feed as a title of the first item of the page that  
>>> describes  squeak is not a smart choice. For somehow not knowing  
>>> at all
>>> what squeak is about and that does not really care about getting  
>>> involved but just want to give a glance.
>>>
>>> Then there are 5 typos in the following text. So the fact that  
>>> we  do not control (or may be somebody edited the text and the  
>>> list by  hand)
>>>  what is published there would push us to be cautious and not  
>>> put  it up front.
>>>
>>> "Croquet Edit and Create 3d Objects
>>> Howard Stearns reciently replyed to a question from Mathieu. I  
>>> thought I’d reporduce his response here. Howard give a lot of  
>>> very  good information about Croquet support for third party  
>>> tools...."
>>>
>>> So what I suggest is to swap the welcome and the news feeds. I  
>>> think that this is important.
>>>
>>> Stef
>>>
>>> On 6 janv. 07, at 18:53, Karl wrote:
>>>
>>>> stephane ducasse wrote:
>>>>> Hi karl
>>>>>
>>>>> my point is about the place of the news on the web site. I  
>>>>> think  that we need something that anybody (and certainly someone
>>>>> evaluating me can understand). When people click on my cv on  
>>>>> the  squeak web site, it should be great.
>>>>> And the news section should not be the top items. Or I can  
>>>>> remove  all the links I have on my sites and cv to squeak.org  
>>>>> but this
>>>>> would be sad because imagine a person not knowing anything  
>>>>> about  squeak going to the site and reading the first paragraph  
>>>>> right now.
>>>> The first paragraph is about the OLPC which has Squeak as part  
>>>> of  it's software. I would consider that a very big news item.
>>>> The frontpage got very static and nobody updated it and nobody  
>>>> wants to lead the web team so this was a good solution for us,  
>>>> since a webpage that newer changes is a dead webpage, at least  
>>>> in  my book.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Stef
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> The news feed is from news.squeak.org so if you join the news  
>>>>>> team you will be able to post directly.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not want. I have nothing against news and I have nothing  
>>>>> to  say.
>>>> I find that hard to believe ;-)
>>>> Karl
>>>>>
>>>>>> Typos and other standards of posting to the news feed should  
>>>>>> probably be addressed to the news team.
>>>>>> Karl
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football  
> Page www.live.com/?addtemplate=football&icid=T001MSN30A0701
>
>

>
>
>> From: Joshua Gargus <[hidden email]>
>> Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers
>> list<[hidden email]>
>> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers
>> list<[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: Could we fix the web site
>> Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 12:00:05 -0800
>>
>> Stephane makes a good point. If we want http://squeak.org to be the
>> public face of Squeak to the outside world, then the news feeds
>> should absolutely not appear at the very top. Instead, the Welcome!
>> section should come first to give a basic understanding of the entire
>> site. That much is clear (right? if not, why?)
>>
>> We could then go on to debate some more ambiguous decisions. For
>> example, within the news section, I would put the squeak.org-specific
>> "Posted News" above the external "News Feeds". However, I have other
>> things to do this fine Saturday than to push hard on that point, or
>> similar ones.
>>
>> Happy weekend Squeaking,
>> Josh
>>
>>
>> On Jan 6, 2007, at 10:28 AM, stephane ducasse wrote:
>>
>>> Karl
>>>
>>> really I'm quite annoyed. I cannot tell you all the story behind my
>>> mail but this is not a simple idiot remark.
>>> Can't we get the welcome paragraph in the first place?
>>> Should I really totally boycott Squeak?
>>> Don't you understand that we are in a world where people communicate
>>> and judge on form?
>>>
>>> News Feed as a title of the first item of the page that describes
>>> squeak is not a smart choice. For somehow not knowing at all
>>> what squeak is about and that does not really care about getting
>>> involved but just want to give a glance.
>>>
>>> Then there are 5 typos in the following text. So the fact that we do
>>> not control (or may be somebody edited the text and the list by hand)
>>> what is published there would push us to be cautious and not put it
>>> up front.
>>>
>>> "Croquet Edit and Create 3d Objects
>>> Howard Stearns reciently replyed to a question from Mathieu. I
>>> thought I’d reporduce his response here. Howard give a lot of very
>>> good information about Croquet support for third party tools...."
>>>
>>> So what I suggest is to swap the welcome and the news feeds. I think
>>> that this is important.
>>>
>>> Stef
>>>
>>> On 6 janv. 07, at 18:53, Karl wrote:
>>>
>>>> stephane ducasse wrote:
>>>>> Hi karl
>>>>>
>>>>> my point is about the place of the news on the web site. I think
>>>>> that we need something that anybody (and certainly someone
>>>>> evaluating me can understand). When people click on my cv on the
>>>>> squeak web site, it should be great.
>>>>> And the news section should not be the top items. Or I can remove
>>>>> all the links I have on my sites and cv to squeak.org but this
>>>>> would be sad because imagine a person not knowing anything about
>>>>> squeak going to the site and reading the first paragraph right now.
>>>> The first paragraph is about the OLPC which has Squeak as part of
>>>> it's software. I would consider that a very big news item.
>>>> The frontpage got very static and nobody updated it and nobody
>>>> wants to lead the web team so this was a good solution for us,
>>>> since a webpage that newer changes is a dead webpage, at least in
>>>> my book.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Stef
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> The news feed is from news.squeak.org so if you join the news
>>>>>> team you will be able to post directly.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not want. I have nothing against news and I have nothing to say.
>>>> I find that hard to believe ;-)
>>>> Karl
>>>>>
>>>>>> Typos and other standards of posting to the news feed should
>>>>>> probably be addressed to the news team.
>>>>>> Karl
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football
> Page www.live.com/?addtemplate=football&icid=T001MSN30A0701
>
>
>

> stephane ducasse wrote:
> >Karl
> >
> >really I'm quite annoyed. I cannot tell you all the story behind my
> >mail but this is not a simple idiot remark.
> >Can't we get the welcome paragraph in the first place?
> >Should I really totally boycott Squeak?
> >Don't you understand that we are in a world where people communicate
> >and judge on form?
> >
> >News Feed as a title of the first item of the page that describes
> >squeak is not a smart choice. For somehow not knowing at all
> >what squeak is about and that does not really care about getting
> >involved but just want to give a glance.
> First let me say that I'm delighted that others care about what the
> website looks like!
>
> I assume that visitors with varying degrees of expertise visit the
> squeak.org top page. I think the question we should ask is what
> information should we deliver, and how should we deliver that
> information, to be the best service for the visitors. There are a few
> issue here that make this a challenge for us. I'm sure there are more.
>
> - First, I don't think we know who those visitors are. For instance,
> what is their expertise level and why they are at squeak.org? What are
> they searching for?
>
> - Another issue is should the site be a dynamic site, or a site where
> the information doesn't necessarily change much.

> I'd like to make squeak.org a place where all levels of
> expertise visit regularly. For old timers, they get the news
> they want. For those seeking to find out what squeak is about,
> they see a vibrant community and an aggressive and interesting
> development of squeak. One way to do that is to build a
> dynamic presence.  Dynamic news feeds provides a small portion
> of this. If the site was integrated with an up-to-date, ever
> changing wiki, that would certainly help people who are
> looking for technical answers keep coming back. And, it would
> assist beginners too.

> If possible, could we edit the license page to include the news about
> the license being changed? I know the process is not complete yet but
> it is an important point, at least to all those perpetual complainers
> about such matters. I dare say there'll be people complaining that the
> Apache license isn't good enough even after all the work...
>
> tim
> --
> tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
> Useful random insult:- Ready to check in at the HaHa Hilton.
>
>
>
>

> >From: Joshua Gargus <[hidden email]>
> >Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers
> >list<[hidden email]>
> >To: The general-purpose Squeak developers
> >list<[hidden email]>
> >Subject: Re: Could we fix the web site
> >Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 12:00:05 -0800
> >
> >Stephane makes a good point.  If we want http://squeak.org to be the
> >public face of Squeak to the outside world, then the news feeds  should
> >absolutely not appear at the very top.  Instead, the Welcome!  section
> >should come first to give a basic understanding of the entire  site. That
> >much is clear (right?  if not, why?)
> >
> >We could then go on to debate some more ambiguous decisions.  For  example,
> >within the news section, I would put the squeak.org-specific  "Posted News"
> >above the external "News Feeds".  However, I have other  things to do this
> >fine Saturday than to push hard on that point, or  similar ones.
> >
> >Happy weekend Squeaking,
> >Josh
> >
> >
> >On Jan 6, 2007, at 10:28 AM, stephane ducasse wrote:
> >
> >>Karl
> >>
> >>really I'm quite annoyed. I cannot tell you all the story behind my  mail
> >>but this is not a simple idiot remark.
> >>Can't we get the welcome paragraph in the first place?
> >>Should I really totally boycott Squeak?
> >>Don't you understand that we are in a world where people  communicate and
> >>judge on form?
> >>
> >>News Feed as a title of the first item of the page that describes  squeak
> >>is not a smart choice. For somehow not knowing at all
> >>what squeak is about and that does not really care about getting  involved
> >>but just want to give a glance.
> >>
> >>Then there are 5 typos in the following text. So the fact that we  do not
> >>control (or may be somebody edited the text and the list by  hand)
> >>  what is published there would push us to be cautious and not put  it up
> >>front.
> >>
> >>      "Croquet Edit and Create 3d Objects
> >>Howard Stearns reciently replyed to a question from Mathieu. I  thought
> >>I'd reporduce his response here. Howard give a lot of very  good
> >>information about Croquet support for third party tools...."
> >>
> >>So what I suggest is to swap the welcome and the news feeds. I  think that
> >>this is important.
> >>
> >>Stef
> >>
> >>On 6 janv. 07, at 18:53, Karl wrote:
> >>
> >>>stephane ducasse wrote:
> >>>>Hi karl
> >>>>
> >>>>my point is about the place of the news on the web site. I think  that
> >>>>we need something that anybody (and certainly someone
> >>>>evaluating me can understand). When people click on my cv on the  squeak
> >>>>web site, it should be great.
> >>>>And the news section should not be the top items. Or I can remove  all
> >>>>the links I have on my sites and cv to squeak.org but this
> >>>>would be sad because imagine a person not knowing anything about  squeak
> >>>>going to the site and reading the first paragraph right now.
> >>>The first paragraph is about the OLPC which has Squeak as part of  it's
> >>>software. I would consider that a very big news item.
> >>>The frontpage got very static and nobody updated it and nobody  wants to
> >>>lead the web team so this was a good solution for us,  since a webpage
> >>>that newer changes is a dead webpage, at least in  my book.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Stef
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>The news feed is from news.squeak.org so if you join the news  team you
> >>>>>will be able to post directly.
> >>>>
> >>>>I do not want. I have nothing against news and I have nothing to  say.
> >>>I find that hard to believe ;-)
> >>>Karl
> >>>>
> >>>>>Typos and other standards of posting to the news feed should  probably
> >>>>>be addressed to the news team.
> >>>>>Karl
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football Page
> www.live.com/?addtemplate=football&icid=T001MSN30A0701
>
>
>

> I think this is annoying. The websties of most companies and software
> projects put too much emphasis on news and press releases.
>
> http://mesa3d.org/ for instance has nothing but news on the front  
> page.
> You have to click a link in the left pane to learn what the project is
> about.
>
> I think http://www.kde.org/ is somewhat better because there's a small
> description of the project before the news feed and you can click the
> "more" link if that's not instructive enough.

>
> News are still important thought. Since most user won't bother to
> subscribe to malling list and rss feeds, the website is their sole
> indication that the project is alive.
>
>
>> Hi karl
>>
>> my point is about the place of the news on the web site.
>>
>>
>>
>
>

> On Sat, Jan 06, 2007 at 11:50:29AM -0800, Brad Fuller wrote:
>  
>> stephane ducasse wrote:
>>    
>>> Karl
>>>
>>> really I'm quite annoyed. I cannot tell you all the story behind my
>>> mail but this is not a simple idiot remark.
>>> Can't we get the welcome paragraph in the first place?
>>> Should I really totally boycott Squeak?
>>> Don't you understand that we are in a world where people communicate
>>> and judge on form?
>>>
>>> News Feed as a title of the first item of the page that describes
>>> squeak is not a smart choice. For somehow not knowing at all
>>> what squeak is about and that does not really care about getting
>>> involved but just want to give a glance.
>>>      
>> First let me say that I'm delighted that others care about what the
>> website looks like!
>>
>> I assume that visitors with varying degrees of expertise visit the
>> squeak.org top page. I think the question we should ask is what
>> information should we deliver, and how should we deliver that
>> information, to be the best service for the visitors. There are a few
>> issue here that make this a challenge for us. I'm sure there are more.
>>
>> - First, I don't think we know who those visitors are. For instance,
>> what is their expertise level and why they are at squeak.org? What are
>> they searching for?
>>
>> - Another issue is should the site be a dynamic site, or a site where
>> the information doesn't necessarily change much.
>>    
>
> I think that the website and Wiki should be combined into one
> Pier website/wiki. My experience is that the homepage for a free
> software project is mostly for beginners, and the mailing list,
> wiki, and code repository is where all the action, and hence
> developers, are. Thus, a combined wiki/website would attract the
> range of expertise you are seeking, IMHO. I sent an email about
> a Pier wiki several months ago:
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2006-October/110510.html
>
> Examining Pier as an alternative to Swiki is still on my to-do
> list, but is currently the third item, after I finish my
> tutorial index and a better Swiki index page. I could bump that
> up if the community wants a better, dynamic website+wiki. If so,
> I could start working on a proposal for the new website, along
> with a migration strategy, by the end of January.
>
> I am trying hard to make the Swiki pages useful
> and of high enough quality that they can be a recommended
> reference, rather than a hodge-podge of information. I would
> like the same for the website.
>
>  
>> - Yet another issue is that we are but a few volunteers, and the list is
>> getting smaller to help with the site.
>>    
>
> I am quite willing to cooperate and help both the web team and
> the News team, since the goals of the doc team overlap the goals
> of the other two teams. However, a wiki migration would probably
> be better handled by the web team.  There is no well-defined
> difference between the web and doc teams, as I see it.
>
> Technically, I don't know how well a Pier website+wiki would
> scale, since Seaside is much more demanding than Apache or
> Swiki.
>
>  
>> I take away from these recent posts that you believe the visitors are
>> are new to squeak and are searching to find out more. Is that right? My
>> answer is I just don't know who they are.
>>    
>
> Well, I am still a noob, and when I first stumbled upon Squeak
> (Through Croquet), I was looking for two things primarily:
>
> - What is Squeak, and why does it exist when great things like
>   Python are around?
> - How do I use it?
>
> The first question was well answered by the current website, but
> I found nothing to really answer the second question. Honestly,
> until I started my tutorial index this past month, I thought
> there were *no* squeak beginners tutorials other than those on
> dmu.com. Luckily, I was wrong, and I am trying to fill that need
> with my tutorial index.
>
>  
>> To me, static web sites show a stale and static life of the
>> organization. That might not be what is really going on underneath the
>> hood, but it looks like that to the visitors. If there is no life,
>> people tend to believe it's either an old site with old content, or the
>> site authors don't care or have the time to update the site. If visitors
>> find this, they turn away and look elsewhere. I could be wrong, but If
>> I'm not, this is something we don't want to occur.
>>    
>
> I agree. At first glance, Squeak looks like either a dead
> project (since the website, and references to it contain dead
> links and old documents) or a dead-end project (since nobody has
> ever heard of it). The Weekly squeak has helped a lot to fix the
> public image that Squeak is not dead, but is alive and growing
> in my mind. Thanks News team!
>
>  
>> I'd like to make squeak.org a place where all levels of
>> expertise visit regularly. For old timers, they get the news
>> they want. For those seeking to find out what squeak is about,
>> they see a vibrant community and an aggressive and interesting
>> development of squeak. One way to do that is to build a
>> dynamic presence.  Dynamic news feeds provides a small portion
>> of this. If the site was integrated with an up-to-date, ever
>> changing wiki, that would certainly help people who are
>> looking for technical answers keep coming back. And, it would
>> assist beginners too.
>>    
>
> I agree ;-)
>
>  
>> My belief is that we need a proper mix of 1) news, 2) well
>> trimmed, up-to-date technical information (wiki) and 3) a
>> comprehensive introduction to squeak (which is what the site
>> is right now, but it too needs to be trimmed better.)
>>    
>
> I am working on the trimming. I can help with the mixing.
>
>  
>> Since this is a volunteer organization, and most of us don't
>> have time to build a site that is dynamic as I'm recommending,
>> I suggested feeding the front site with something that was of
>> interest to others and was dynamic. That's all.
>>    
>
> hmm. I just noticed that squeak.org already is a SmallWiki site,
> which is the predecessor to Pier. Would it be possible to just
> upgrade it or flip some bits to turn it into a wiki? I could
> definitely bring some more life into the features and
> Documentation pages, at least.
>
> Also, is there a way I could download the squeak.org SmallWiki
> image? That would help a lot when I get around to examining a
> Swiki emigration.
>
>  
>> Can you or any others help us out?
>>    
>
> Definitely :-)
>