Looking for good souls
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Re: Looking for good souls
 
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a "Tutor" list for Squeak (cool ! it feels like being at Squeak Academy at last :) )
"Reporting for duty sir" ... euh ... I mean count me in ! francois On 22/04/06, Nagy Attila <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi Herbert! |
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In reply to this post by Nagy Attila
Strange LifeMorph and ProgrammingMorph work fine for me with
Squeak3.8-6665. Can it be related to some post-update on your 3.8 image? Try with a fresh 3.8 image. Hilaire Nagy Attila a écrit : > What I get is: > > "Error occured during install: > MultiByteFileStream>>fileInObjectAndCodeForProject" > > Debugger says "MultiByteFileStrem(Object) does not understand > #fileInObjectAndCodeForProject" > > Can this be due to the version mismatch? > > Hilaire Fernandes írta: > >> >> Nagy Attila a écrit : >> >>> Hi Squeakers, >>> >>> I've been trying to install some packages I think may be of help in >>> learning Morphic (BreakOut, ProgrammingMorph, LifeMorph), of which only >>> BreakOut installed correctly. I keep getting errors saying that there's >>> no release for my Squeak version, which is 3.8. Most packages are for >>> 3.6. Should I downgrade my Squeak? Or is there another way? >> >> >> >> Even if you get this message, you can still ask to get the package >> installed. At least I know it works for ProgrammingMorph. >> >> >> >>> Thanks, Attis >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > |
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Hi!
Hilaire Fernandes <[hidden email]> wrote: > Strange LifeMorph and ProgrammingMorph work fine for me with > Squeak3.8-6665. Can it be related to some post-update on your 3.8 image? > Try with a fresh 3.8 image. > > Hilaire My guess is that Nagy upgraded SM before the last round of fixes. So Nagy - first do "upgrade all installed packages" - which hopefully upgrades "SqueakMap2 Base" and perhaps "SqueakMap Loader" (not as critical), and then try again. The packages you mention are in three different formats and the error you mentioned was probably for ProgrammingMorph (since that is packaged as a Project (.pr)). It might have been solved in my last update to SqueakMap2 Base - but again, just a guess. regards, Göran |
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In reply to this post by Nagy Attila
Hello Attis,
NA> Shyness, I think that's quite a barrier to cross when you're new to a NA> community. And when I see people speaking about Croquet and HOM (none of no doubt and that's why we have to do something about it. NA> discouraged to ask questions like "how do I create a simple input window?" FillInTheBlankMorph request: 'How to create a simple input window' initialAnswer: 'Try FillInTheBlankMorph's class side messages' :-)) NA> Exactly that's what I think. And I think that is why there aren't enough NA> good tutorials out there. There are many (won't judge them for good or bad). I had fun with "Why morpic is way cool" from the swiki http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak though outdated. There you'll find something named "Practical wizardry". I admit I started with the bank account tutorial. Also try "Terse Guide to Squeak" and for some UI basics look at the pluggable morphs demo. And then there's the free books collected by Stef. There really is a wealth of information, also on which packages to install. Just a bit widespread. Dunno what you found yourself already, so I'll keep this short but keep asking! One thing about morpic is you have to change your mindset about user interface programming but there also is Wx widgets which is closer to conventional Windows UI. Haven't tried yet. Cheers Herbert mailto:[hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Nagy Attila
Nagy, I think you can take advantage of seaside framework (www.seaside.st)
Regards, Sebastian PD: I allways critic, I could be wrog but I don't see too much future in morphic stuff. I think there are more sophisticated ideas being cooked. > -----Mensaje original----- > De: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] En > nombre de Nagy Attila > Enviado el: Sábado, 22 de Abril de 2006 04:50 > Para: The general-purpose Squeak developers list > Asunto: Re: Looking for good souls > > Dear Good Souls, > > I am a newcomer to the world of Squeak and Smalltalk, but > already an experienced programmer in some other languages > (including Java, which I think I'll never use again :) ) I > would like to dive into developing useful applications in > Squeak, but don't really know where to start, right now I am > trying to familiarize myself with Morphic programming. > So, if this collective of Good Souls is together, I'd be the > first one to sign up to the new squeak-starters list. Thanks > for the great idea - sounds just like what I've been looking for! > > Attis > > Hilaire Fernandes írta: > > I can try to help. > > > > Hilaire > > > > stephane ducasse a écrit : > > > >>Hi all > >> > >>I would like to have a list for newbies: squeak-starters > >>because (I see it now with my students) newbies are really > afraid to post, > >>experience with python mailing-list doing the same are a > success so we > >>should learn. > >> > >>Now I would like to have a couple of good souls to help me > answering > >>the questions > >>on this squeak-starters mailing-list. > >> > >>So if we are 4 or 5 we win! > >> > >>Stef > >> > >> > > > > > > > > |
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In reply to this post by stephane ducasse
Stef,
I will help with what I can. Anyway I'll don't wait to be some kind of expert (by the way... wich nobody cant tell you when that happen) to give some help to users. I must say that I support this idea and I think is the rigt direction. I must say too that the list's name "squeak-starters mailing-list" is not going in this direction and what is worse is subtlelty teaching everybody that is not. I say this because it will keep allways the subscribers thinking in theirselves as starters (of something that should be "going" someday). I would agree with a name like "squeak-users" so it subtlelty teach that (in fact) *is* going. I think it will help us to help. Best regards, Sebastian > -----Mensaje original----- > De: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] En > nombre de stephane ducasse > Enviado el: Sábado, 22 de Abril de 2006 04:00 > Para: The general-purpose Squeak developers list > Asunto: Looking for good souls > > Hi all > > I would like to have a list for newbies: squeak-starters > because (I see it now with my students) newbies are really > afraid to post, experience with python mailing-list doing the > same are a success so we should learn. > > Now I would like to have a couple of good souls to help me > answering the questions on this squeak-starters mailing-list. > > So if we are 4 or 5 we win! > > Stef > |
Re: Looking for good souls
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Ok so let's find a good name.
squeakers squeak-starter squeak-chat squeak-users (i'm afraid that people think about using = etoy but why not). I like the chat idea of the meeting on irc (that I usually miss). Stef On 22 avr. 06, at 15:39, Sebastián Sastre wrote: > Stef, > > I will help with what I can. Anyway I'll don't wait to be some kind > of expert (by the way... wich nobody cant tell you when that > happen) to give > some help to users. I must say that I support this idea and I think > is the > rigt direction. > > I must say too that the list's name "squeak-starters mailing-list" > is not going in this direction and what is worse is subtlelty teaching > everybody that is not. I say this because it will keep allways the > subscribers thinking in theirselves as starters (of something that > should be > "going" someday). I would agree with a name like "squeak-users" so it > subtlelty teach that (in fact) *is* going. I think it will help us > to help. > > Best regards, > > Sebastian > > >> -----Mensaje original----- >> De: [hidden email] >> [mailto:[hidden email]] En >> nombre de stephane ducasse >> Enviado el: Sábado, 22 de Abril de 2006 04:00 >> Para: The general-purpose Squeak developers list >> Asunto: Looking for good souls >> >> Hi all >> >> I would like to have a list for newbies: squeak-starters >> because (I see it now with my students) newbies are really >> afraid to post, experience with python mailing-list doing the >> same are a success so we should learn. >> >> Now I would like to have a couple of good souls to help me >> answering the questions on this squeak-starters mailing-list. >> >> So if we are 4 or 5 we win! >> >> Stef >> > > > |
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In reply to this post by stephane ducasse
I'll help.
Ron Teitelbaum > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:squeak-dev- > [hidden email]] On Behalf Of stephane ducasse > Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2006 3:00 AM > To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list > Subject: Looking for good souls > > Hi all > > I would like to have a list for newbies: squeak-starters > because (I see it now with my students) newbies are really afraid to > post, > experience with python mailing-list doing the same are a success so > we should learn. > > Now I would like to have a couple of good souls to help me answering > the questions > on this squeak-starters mailing-list. > > So if we are 4 or 5 we win! > > Stef > |
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In reply to this post by Herbert König
Count me in...
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In reply to this post by stephane ducasse
Squeak is so deep that half the time I feel like a noob working with it.
But I'll certainly subscribe and jump in with help where I can. -Todd On Apr 22, 2006, at 12:00 AM, stephane ducasse wrote: > Hi all > > I would like to have a list for newbies: squeak-starters > because (I see it now with my students) newbies are really afraid > to post, > experience with python mailing-list doing the same are a success so > we should learn. > > Now I would like to have a couple of good souls to help me > answering the questions > on this squeak-starters mailing-list. > > So if we are 4 or 5 we win! > > Stef > |
Re: Looking for good souls
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In reply to this post by stéphane ducasse-2
On 22/04/06, stéphane ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: Ok so let's find a good name. my 2 cents: I personally think it should emphasize on the idea of *learning* (I think Squeak needs that: more programmers/teachers/students/people *learning* to program in Squeak and do useful things with it) squeakers It looks like a club to me not sure if it's about learning. squeak-starter No strong opinion squeak-chat Don't like it and doesn't look like *learning* but eventually 'gossiping', maybe in a squeak manner ;) squeak-users (i'm afraid that people think about using = etoy but why I tend to like it but maybe 'Squeakers' are 'above' *using* (the users of) a software. To me Squeak seems more about 'building'/learning/programing than 'using'. Personally I quiet like the "tutor" prefix (or any prefix which focus on *learning* but not on belonging to any kind of select club or 'sect'). As I mentioned before the list 'Python-Tutors' works well and have been very helpful for me and it begins with a statement which don't scare beginners : "Tutor -- Discussion for learning programming with Python". Anyway I think the idea is that it should be clear for newcomers that they are welcome to ask even 'silly'/obvious/abc question in a list which is designed for that (meaning few threads about hacking the VM or Bug Reports) Whatever the name of the list I think it's a great initiative, thanks :) francois |
Re: Looking for good souls
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francois schnell a écrit :
> Personally I quiet like the "tutor" prefix (or any prefix which focus on > *learning* but not on belonging to any kind of select club or 'sect'). > As I mentioned before the list 'Python-Tutors' works well and have been > very helpful for me and it begins with a statement which don't scare > beginners : "Tutor -- Discussion for learning programming with Python". I agree with François, "tutor" included in the mailing list name will be meaningfull for starters. Hilaire |
Re: Looking for good souls
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May be this is my english but for me
squeak-Tutor tells me that this is for teachers and not for learners :) Stef On 22 avr. 06, at 18:10, Hilaire Fernandes wrote: > francois schnell a écrit : > >> Personally I quiet like the "tutor" prefix (or any prefix which >> focus on >> *learning* but not on belonging to any kind of select club or >> 'sect'). >> As I mentioned before the list 'Python-Tutors' works well and have >> been >> very helpful for me and it begins with a statement which don't scare >> beginners : "Tutor -- Discussion for learning programming with >> Python". > > I agree with François, "tutor" included in the mailing list name > will be > meaningfull for starters. > > Hilaire > |
Re: Looking for good souls
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stéphane ducasse a écrit :
> May be this is my english but for me No it should be mine :) > > squeak-Tutor tells me that this is for teachers and not for learners :) Then what about squeak-learners, at least it is explicite. |
Re: Looking for good souls
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In reply to this post by stéphane ducasse-2
Damned ! you're probably right, I was on the wrong list ! that's probably why I've learnt Python so quick ;)
On 22/04/06, stéphane ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: May be this is my english but for me |
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In reply to this post by stéphane ducasse-2
In keeping with zen and the importance of approaching the world with
"beginner's mind", I like squeak-beginners. On Apr 22, 2006, at 9:15 AM, stéphane ducasse wrote: > May be this is my english but for me > > squeak-Tutor tells me that this is for teachers and not for > learners :) > > Stef > On 22 avr. 06, at 18:10, Hilaire Fernandes wrote: > >> francois schnell a écrit : >> >>> Personally I quiet like the "tutor" prefix (or any prefix which >>> focus on >>> *learning* but not on belonging to any kind of select club or >>> 'sect'). >>> As I mentioned before the list 'Python-Tutors' works well and >>> have been >>> very helpful for me and it begins with a statement which don't scare >>> beginners : "Tutor -- Discussion for learning programming with >>> Python". >> >> I agree with François, "tutor" included in the mailing list name >> will be >> meaningfull for starters. >> >> Hilaire >> > > |
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In reply to this post by Herbert König
Herbert König wrote:
> > FillInTheBlankMorph request: 'How to create a simple input window' > initialAnswer: 'Try FillInTheBlankMorph's class side messages' > :-)) > Wow, thanks! Exactly what I've been looking for. One thing that would surely make it easier for everyone to start out would be a brief list of the most important class -- I mean the ones that help you through the steepest part of the learning curve. For example, since I've got to know the Transcript, I could do thingies in a Workspace that did output, but still had no way of reading user input. Now I do. Maybe having a list titled: "If you are new to Squeak, get acquainted to these classes:" would help. On the name of the new list: I think "squeak-user" is not too informative. How about "squeak-wannabe-dev"? Some wilder ideas: "squeak-good-souls" or "squeak-boot-camp". What do you think? Would either of them totally scare off newcomers? And this goes out to you all: this is my first day on this mailing list, and you've been responsive and helpful to me all the time. You are indeed Good Souls, and one of the most friendly communities I've ever got to know. Keep it up! Attis |
Re: Looking for good souls
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In reply to this post by tblanchard
sounds cool.
> In keeping with zen and the importance of approaching the world > with "beginner's mind", I like squeak-beginners. |
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I feel the need to make a couple of points here:-
a mailing list for newcomers and other learners to ask questions is a good thing so long as enough people already knowledgeable and able to spend time helping actually take part. A mailing list is not a good place to look for answers to questions previously asked, for when a user feels a little more confident and wants to do some research themself. I'm not much of a fan of web-based forae because of the fragmentation they seem to engender BUT they are an excellent mechanism to provide an easily growable knowledge base of answers and advice. A swiki should be at least as good but they do seem to get horribly disorganised very quickly so perhaps using a web forum in the style of www.osxfaq.com's would be useful. Some threads are open to post questions and some are closed as a record of an answer that should stand alone. more importantly we need *content*. I'd bet that almost every plausible newcomer question has been asked and answered but we have no sensible record. Searching a mailing list archive isn't really very helpful, especially if the subject was contentious and generated more heat than light. There are almost certainly hundreds of useful tutorial snippets - some much more than snippets - lying around the web. Surely an effective tactic would be to dig them all out, review them for accuracy, contemporary relevance, completeness and quality and then try to build a reasonably coherent body of guidance out of them? more important still, we need *commitment* to do this and keep it up to date and answer questions and take the the answers and make them into newer or better tutorials and articles. We need people that are competent (or great!) teachers to actually decide to make the effort and to keep it up. We need people that are good at turning helpful answers into helpful pages on the web. We need reviewers to critique the tutorials and help make them better. I can't provide that commitment since I'm pretty much maxed out by VMMaker and the general Foundation work. Who can volunteer to do this? tim -- tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim CChheecckk yyoouurr dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh.. |
Re: Looking for good souls
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We could give a try to get a web forum but someone should do it :)
(we even developed a SmallBB in Seaside, but it seems that people were not into that). Indeed sorting the information is crucial and few people are pushing there. We are planning to write Squeak by Example as a free book, but this is secret :) and ideally this could be good that people contribute with a main editor. But for now this is still secret ;) For now I feel that I could start with a squeak-wannabe mailing-list > I feel the need to make a couple of points here:- > > a mailing list for newcomers and other learners to ask questions is > a good thing so long as enough people already knowledgeable and > able to spend time helping actually take part. A mailing list is > not a good place to look for answers to questions previously asked, > for when a user feels a little more confident and wants to do some > research themself. I'm not much of a fan of web-based forae because > of the fragmentation they seem to engender BUT they are an > excellent mechanism to provide an easily growable knowledge base of > answers and advice. A swiki should be at least as good but they do > seem to get horribly disorganised very quickly so perhaps using a > web forum in the style of www.osxfaq.com's would be useful. Some > threads are open to post questions and some are closed as a record > of an answer that should stand alone. > > more importantly we need *content*. I'd bet that almost every > plausible newcomer question has been asked and answered but we have > no sensible record. Searching a mailing list archive isn't really > very helpful, especially if the subject was contentious and > generated more heat than light. There are almost certainly hundreds > of useful tutorial snippets - some much more than snippets - lying > around the web. Surely an effective tactic would be to dig them all > out, review them for accuracy, contemporary relevance, completeness > and quality and then try to build a reasonably coherent body of > guidance out of them? > > more important still, we need *commitment* to do this and keep it > up to date and answer questions and take the the answers and make > them into newer or better tutorials and articles. We need people > that are competent (or great!) teachers to actually decide to make > the effort and to keep it up. We need people that are good at > turning helpful answers into helpful pages on the web. We need > reviewers to critique the tutorials and help make them better. > > I can't provide that commitment since I'm pretty much maxed out by > VMMaker and the general Foundation work. Who can volunteer to do this? > > tim > -- > tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim > CChheecckk yyoouurr dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh.. > > > |
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